Transcript

Lily:

Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Everything You Know about Disability is wrong. We are super excited for today's episode. We have Collette Divitto, who is the founder and CEO of Collettey's Cookies. This is such an awesome interview and really gets to the core of what we wanted to do this season — talking about really empowering work that's coming out of the disability community. I think Collette absolutely embodies that spirit of inclusion and trying to create a more accepting environment, especially in the workplace for people with disabilities.

Erin:

And what I really loved about this episode is how she talks about interdependence, how her family has helped her in her journey with her job and how the whole conversation about her mom was kind of relatable for me and I loved it.

Lily:

Yeah, it's a great episode. I'm excited for our listeners to hear it. I totally agree and I think that that's also a core tenet of the disability community that people on the outside might not know about, so it's great for [Everything You Know about Disability Is Wrong] — in that interdependence is crucial. It's really important. It's the way we create projects and systems that help us all thrive. So I'm really excited for this episode and also just blown away by Collette's cookies. They're delicious and I hope everyone after this episode orders a bunch of them. Let's get into it.

Erin:

Yay.

[Music]

Oh my goodness. You are such an inspiration. Wow, you really are. You're so strong. Can I pet your service dog? 1, 2, 3, let's go. We're artists, parents, teachers, good guys, bad guys, students, leaders. I'm not your inspiration, yeah, I'm fully who I am. Got my own expectations that don't fit into your plans. I'm not your sad story, so I wrote it in this song. Everything you know about disability is wrong. Yeah, everything you know about disability is wrong.

Lily:

Hi and welcome to another episode of Everything You Know About Disability Is Wrong. We have a very exciting guest. Hi Collette. Thank you for joining us today.

Collette Divitto:

I am so honored to be on this call. I'm very excited.

Lily:

Thank you. I'm so excited you're here. Yeah.

Erin:

So excited.

Lily:

We love your story and especially because this month we're recording in October, which is National Disability Employment Awareness Month. You want to just give us a little bit of your story for our listeners to hear a bit about you and get to know you?

Collette Divitto:

I can, yes. Okay. I always loved baking since I was younger, since I was in high school. Since in high school I was bullied a lot. I did not have a social life like my sister and yes, and also I was bullied. That part from high school, that is actually very sad on me and that's why I did not want to feel down on myself a lot and that's why I started baking as my fun hobby. Every weekend at home, down at my hometown, I always make all these cakes and pies. I make all of those fun things as my fun hobby but because I did not know anything all about baking at first and that's, I actually feel in love with baking. That is exactly what I really want.

My mom actually put me into a beginner class when I was in high school. I was actually one of [the] best students, went into my beginning class, I was really good at it. After high school, I went to college, I went to Clemson City down in South Carolina. There is actually a chef program down at Clemson. There is actually a three year program. There is learning about jobs and also independent. So I actually read. So I got put in early in the three year program. In these two years, I moved to Boston. I was trying to find jobs, they will not call me. They just sent me an email saying that…

Collette, that's me, it was great to meet you in person but at this time we feel I am not a “good fit” because of me, who was born with Down syndrome and that's my attitude and that's for that. So after that happened, I brought several of my semi-chocolate cookie to this local project here in Boston nearby my home. If they would sell them, they have been selling them really quickly. Everybody loves them and that's why they wanted to buy more by the end of the week and that is why I started my own company. So actually, I actually started my own company in 2016. That was in December. I make all 16 types of cookies.

So want…the first company, that is actually called joyful cookies that is actually for profit. I want second company. It's a, it is nonprofit. That one is called collettesleadership.org. I have been teaching classes. I have been teaching about independence, how to become as an entrepreneur and then also I have been teaching other classes. I always go in-person all the time, but because during COVID time, I have to do by online. Doing in-person, everything so easy on me, not always being online. Also I love doing now, my whole mission - so I always love doing it, is really about creating more jobs for people with a disabilities. I have two books. First book, that one, it has been on, that one is called Collette in Kindergarten. I have a study book. Study book will come out on my birthday and that one it's called Collette in Third Grade.

So that's why I like on like to keep on writing more of my own books all the way up to my company. I also have a TV show on Peacock that, so it's called a Born for Business and it is with four entrepreneurs. I am one of the people who has a cookie company. So actually all four of us founded the show, we have our own disabilities. I actually do have baking shows and also I have all six episodes of my show. That one, it’s actually called Underestimated. That is on my YouTube channel. Yes, I actually do have two new cookies. They are actually same type as my big ones. They are actually called crispy sweet-chocolate chip and also crunchy oatmeal raisin cookies. They are part of, they are into my TD box. I got to ask at TD Garden in Boston, set us up a shop there, a store market, because it is actually one of two adequate locations and also I have 50 people who have been telling me, I have been doing what I love doing. I have actually 20 or so people with disabilities. I actually, so actually, I have as my team in my company, I actually have half of people who have a disabilities and another half are people who do not have disabilities. So now you know who I am.

Lily:

What an awesome story. Thank you for sharing everything with us. I think that that is, I mean one, I'm sorry that people were so cruel in high school and that you dealt with bullying. That is awful and I think is a common thread.

Collette Divitto:

I was only pushing for my…through my high school times, I have been through so much since I have been through all these hard times, such as friends I don't have, I have been bullied — my dad, my brother — all things from my past, I cannot think about my past. I really can't.

Lily:

Yeah, I think it's, I mean you clearly moved forward and found the goodness in the really hard times, which I think is something that unfortunately a lot of us with disabilities have to deal with bullying and bad things that happen. But I love that in that dark moment of time when you were facing so much hardship, you found cooking and you found baking and I'm so glad you took that class because now you're doing so many great things for the disabled community as a whole and showing especially — I really love what you're doing with your YouTube series Underestimated. I think it's really important to show the world that just because we have disability doesn't mean that we can't do anything.

Collette Divitto:

Exactly, yes.

Lily:

The next question I was going to ask was why cookies? But I think we got that story. It makes sense. It makes sense what baking did for you and why you chose that. So was there a reason that you picked cookies instead of cake or other things you made?

Collette Divitto:

We actually… it’s just cakes and pies, so cakes and pies, and with all the events, that is just for my fun hobby. I love doing every weekend at home. Because with the cookies, it has to be business.

Lily:

Okay, that makes sense.

Collette Divitto:

As my company. So that's different.

Lily:

Well I love that you kept some hobbies just for yourself because sometimes when you make your entire hobby, your business, it can be overwhelming and then you don't have anything fun. So I'm glad you still have cakes and pies that keep baking really fun for you.

Collette Divitto:

Yes, that's my fun hobby. Yes, I love that. I am actually going to tell you why cookies. Because I make many cookies and everyone loves them very much and that's why they have been buying my cookies over and over again and I see how much they actually love them. The financial of that second question.

Lily:

I love that and I think that that's wonderful. I think that's just so exciting and makes sense. It's just a good business decision when people are going to buy them. You might as well keep making them.

Collette Divitto:

Have to.

Lily:

So then you had a very… kind of one of those viral overnight experiences where you were featured on the news and then you woke up and the next morning you had 4,000 orders. What was that like? What was that experience like for you?

Collette Divitto:

My gosh, I am actually going to tell you why - for that third question, I’m going to tell you the reason why. Having 4,000 orders, that is actually team in it, which I cannot do by myself at all. And that's why I have to ask people. I have been asking, I have been asking, I have been asking my mom and my sister and my aunts, uncles, cousins, friends. I would say, I would say, would not say my friends since I don't have friends from high school. Besides, I only can say this. So actually, I have been asking all of my sister’s friends and my mom’s friends too. And also, I have been asking all of the college people — I have to ask all the, I'm talking way too fast. I only can say this. I couldn’t do it all on my own. I had to ask mom and my family and uncles and my sister’s friends and also my mom’s friends too, as well. I have been asking new people. I had to ask all of the college sports teams, and by sports, I meant as a sport team. They're from college. Sports as in, baseball, hockey, football people — it’s to have all of those good people, it’s to come to my space to come help me out — for doing 4,000 orders that has came in!

Lily:

Wow. Yeah, that sounds like a wild experience. Just waking up to such a big change in business and orders. That's amazing though.

Collette Divitto:

We went crazy and I can’t do it all by all myself and it's way too much. It is way too much on me. At that time, I had to ask those people just to help me out and they did.

Lily:

Yeah, I'm so glad that you had people who helped you out and you were able to kind of ride that wave of the 4,000 orders. So then more people heard about your company and you were able to get that support. And I think that it's important, especially if you felt like you didn't necessarily have that community, especially in high school, you didn't really have the group of friends you could depend on. So it's really wonderful that with something like your business, you were able to have a lot of people that you could depend on that showed up for you and helped you with the 4,000 orders. That's really incredible and I think that's a really awesome part of your story.

Collette Divitto:

Thank you.

Erin:

Yeah, I love that everyone came together to help you out, because I can't imagine all that work just by yourself — too much.

Collette Divitto:

It's a lot. Yes.

Lily:

So then was it after that that you decided, okay, this can't just be me anymore? If we're going to have a lot of regular orders, I need to expand. And is that when you started hiring and you ended up with a staff that is half other people with disabilities?

Collette Divitto:

Yes.

Lily:

That's wonderful. So you've kind of touched on it that that's one of your goals is just to hire more people with disabilities.

Collette Divitto:

Actually, not just that. So actually, for my goals for my company, it’s is really about — I really want to keep on creating more jobs for people with disabilities and also doing more of my nonprofit, which is teaching different classes for the people. And that I really want to keep on doing that. And also, I also want to do more of my speaking events.

Lily:

Cool. Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that you are teaching the classes especially focused on independence. What made you decide that you wanted to focus on teaching about independence?

Collette Divitto:

So —

Lily:

That wasn't really one of the questions that I had listed, but what kind of classes do you teach?

Collette Divitto:

I have been teaching is …It's really about independence, how to live independently. And my second class, that one is actually about how to become as an entrepreneur, which I am. I learned that part from my mom, but because I didn't know how to start my ow company at the very beginning, I learned from my mom too. I have been teaching other ones too. I think you can do is go on my website and just go on my nonprofit and just check it out some.

Lily:

Yeah, definitely. For all of our listeners, I think that you should definitely go to her website and check that out because I think that people don't necessarily understand what would be taught in classes about independence and that's super duper important and I love that. I also love that your mom taught you how to be an entrepreneur. I think that's incredible and we need more women entrepreneurs in general. I think that sometimes people, when people think entrepreneur, they think of a man in a suit.

Collette Divitto:

Exactly like that. Yes.

Lily:

So we want to change that perception and I mean you are an incredible entrepreneur. You've started your own company, the cookie company, you have a nonprofit, you make videos, you do public speaking, you're a podcast guest, you are doing it all. And I think everything you're doing is really important because the next question we're going to ask is why do you think companies are not hiring people with disabilities? And I think that everything you're doing is working to help companies learn that they should be. But why do you think that is and why do you think you faced such — I mean, you faced clear discrimination when people were just telling you you're not a good fit. Why do you think that was?

Collette Divitto:

So as a good example, just like me, since I went on job — since I was searching for jobs, to really want to make money or earn a living, you really want to live independently. That's why they [didn’t hire me because] I have disabilities and also, they should not think that way. For those people out there who have disabilities, who can’t find jobs, that hurts me so much and it break my heart for those people. For those people who really want to find jobs, who really want to make money, also, who really wants to own a living just like me, just yeah, just like me. They really don't want to live with their parents. They don't want to do that. They really want to live independently. But because those people in the companies, they actually think those people with disabilities, they are not capable. They cannot do anything. And that actually, that hurts me very much and that's what they really want to make money, and earn a living, but you always have to live with the parents all the time. So that's why.

Lily:

Yeah, and I think so many people think about independence, but they forget that. I mean you can't be independent if you can't pay for things in this world. And if you're not getting hired, you're not getting hired. That's a problem. Erin, what was, you've worked at Easterseals for a while now. What was your job finding experience before that?

Erin:

I applied to hundreds of jobs and never heard back ever. Yeah, they never said sorry, I just got nothing. And then I saw a message on Facebook advertising a job that I'm in now and I applied and I met Yolanda first and it was amazing, but it shouldn't be because Easterseals is a disability organization, so I think we're more open to hiring someone with a disability whereas other places are not. So yeah, it's very painful to think about.

Lily:

Especially with I'm so glad that you're where you are at right now, Collette, with your company, and Erin, I know you love this job and we get to make cool stuff all the time, but it really is devastating to think that there are so many people out there who are just continually underestimated and not given a chance to show their skills. I think that's just really hard. And I agree. I think that it's hard not to get emotional thinking about just, I mean it's discrimination fully and I think it's one of the forms of discrimination that doesn't get really talked about. I mean, I think most of the world is still learning that ableism is even a word and that people with disabilities do face discrimination. So I'm glad we're talking about it and I'm glad that you have such a passion, Colette, for making the world see that we should hire people with disabilities and that we're capable. And I just think that's really wonderful. So my next question specifically — we've talked about disabilities in general, just so you're familiar, Collette, I'm autistic and Erin has muscular dystrophy and we like to just talk about in each episode kind of what people get wrong about us. What do you think people assume about Down syndrome specifically?

Collette Divitto:

So I have to — so what do I think about people, or what people assume about Down syndrome. So I have to say this. Most people who do not believe, most people have, they do not, they do not believe… most people do not believe in people who are actually born with Down syndrome, who have been treated really badly. That happens to me, also. Most people, they just think that people just let me – who are actually born with Down syndrome and also having a disability, it actually hurts me very much that because most people, they have been treating them so differently and also they do not believe in them.

Lily:

Yeah, I mean I think that there's a reason your series on YouTube is called Underestimated. I think that there's a lot of assumptions. People just think that –

Collette Divitto:

[Speaking as those who are making assumptions] Because people is dumb. People with a disability, they are treated very differently. They should not do that to those people. And that way, for those people, it makes them feel really sad, inside of them.

Erin:

And all of us just want to be treated the same as everybody else.

Collette Divitto:

Yes, Exactly.

Erin:

Right.

Collette Divitto:

Yeah. And just be who you want. Never means anything all about your – Never change anything of yourself at all.

Erin:

Never. Yep.

Lily:

And I mean that's so hard for people to embrace self-confidence and embrace being who they are. If you're constantly having assumptions made about you, especially for being autistic, which is a non-apparent disability, most people when they look at me don't necessarily think I'm autistic. And I've had experiences where I'm talking to someone, it's going great, we're having a great time. And then I kind of casually mentioned that I'm autistic and suddenly they were talking to me normally and now suddenly they're like, “oh, okay, hi.” And it's like why did you just change your tone of voice? We were in the middle of a conversation. And I think that when people can see a disability immediately, they think they know everything and they make a lot of assumptions. And for anyone listening to this podcast that is thinking to themselves like, oh, have I done that?

I think it's okay to acknowledge that we live in a world where we, up until pretty recently, didn't talk about disability very much. And people with disabilities have often been separated, put in separate classrooms, and we're just now starting to really address ableism. And I think it's okay to acknowledge your own ableism and say like, oh, you know what? I think I did have some assumptions about autistic people or about people with Down syndrome or about people with physical disabilities or I had these assumptions. It's better to acknowledge what you think and realize that you're wrong than to just try to gloss over it. So I urge any listeners who have any assumptions about any kind of disability to understand. One thing we always say is that when one person with a disability, one person with a disability, that's it. You don't get to make assumptions about everyone else because we're all our own people and we have awesome personalities worth getting to know.

And even on this podcast, this is my experience of autism, your experience of Down syndrome, we will have other guests on who are autistic that have different experiences or who have Down syndrome, who have different experiences because we are full human beings and we're different and we're not just one thing. So I just really appreciate all of the work you're doing and I hope that people realize that if they're overlooking hiring disabled people, I mean they're overlooking an entire population of people who want to work. And there's such a common thing right now where people say like, “oh, no one wants to work these days.” People say that, but then there's a ton of people with disabilities who do want to work and can't get hired. So it just doesn't make sense. And I hope people start to realize that you can't just rule out an entire group of people. That's actually discrimination and it's horrible. So I hope that by talking about this and having phenomenal entrepreneurs like yourself, I hope that people start to change their mindset. And I know that's a lot of pressure on you to change the whole world's mindset, but I think you're doing a phenomenal job.

Collette Divitto:

Thank you.

Lily:

So as an entrepreneur, what is your advice for someone who, like you, has a hobby or a passion who wants to start their own company?

Collette Divitto:

So there is actually a two really good advice for those people out there who really want to start their own company. So there is actually two things, I have to say is actually okay, number one – be willing, be willing to work hard. Okay, that is the first one. Second one, you have to, sorry…number two is you have to love what you do, to start your company. So there's two things they need to learn who really want to start their own company or business is they have to work hard. And the second one is actually love what you do to start their own company.

Lily:

I think that's really important and is something that gets left out of the work conversation. Sometimes, especially for people with disabilities that are trying so hard to get any job, it can seem easy to just be like, oh, I'll take whatever I can get. But starting a company, I mean it's a big endeavor. It's a big process and you really got to love what you're doing to be able to handle that. And I would imagine when something like the getting 4,000 orders overnight happens, it's the fact that you love making cookies. That is what keeps you going.

Collette Divitto:

And also, for that, you have to work hard, too.

Lily:

That's very important. Being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It is a very hard thing. I have thought about it in the past. I don't know if I could handle it. I think it's really, it takes exactly what you said. You have to be willing to work really hard and work outside of nine to five hours and keep going overnight and be willing to ask for help. It's a daunting task and I think that it's important for people to realize, if you want to go for it and you love what you do and you're willing to work hard, being an entrepreneur might be for you.

Collette Divitto:

Exactly. Yes, I agree on that. Yes.

Lily:

Well I love that. I love everything you're doing. I think that I can't wait to try your cookies. Yes.

Collette Divitto:

I would love to send you guys my cookies. I just need to have your address.

Lily:

Perfect. I'll send you that. I would love some cookies. And then when we record our intro and outro for this episode, we'll record that after. And maybe we'll have had the cookies by then, so we'll be able to say that we tried them. I would love to.

Collette Divitto:

So as my two new cookies, they are not on my website. They are not. We are actually at […] But what I actually do have on my website is my big ones. I have is, it's called Gift boxes. It’s for every occasions such as birthdays, Christmas weddings. I have all of those things and that’s all on my website.

Lily:

Incredible

Collette Divitto:

I have so many things on my website, you need to look it up.

Lily:

Absolutely, I think that that's incredible. You're just doing really cool work and it's really what...

Collette Divitto:

That's exactly what I have my mom… so she doesn’t bake. I do. I do the baking all by myself, not from my family. And my mom, with my mom, she is really bad at it. And that's why I have to have her do the PR, the public, the media, the photos, and spreadsheet, everything.

Lily:

Oh, that's so great that she does that. And then you get to focus on baking, which is your thing.

Collette Divitto:

So my job is really about baking, yes, packaging, shipping and my employees, being on tv, being on podcasts, speaking things, and my nonprofit, all the good things, that's my job. With my mom, it’s in a different side of the production.

Lily:

You have a lot of jobs.

Collette Divitto:

I do.

Lily:

But that's great. I think that's wonderful.

Collette Divitto:

I love it. I really do.

Lily:

You love it? That's good.

Collette Divitto:

I love my own company, being my own boss, I make all of my own decisions and I love that, but I know it's too much.

Lily:

So yeah, I love that. I think that's really important. And I think that is another thing that people probably underestimate. And sometimes people assume that people with disabilities can't make their own decisions. And not only are you making your own decisions for your own life, you're running an entire freaking company. You're making decisions.

Collette Divitto:

I do. But yeah, me asking – so, as my mom, her job, as I said, is way different than my job. Emails and setting me up to be on calls, PR, that's her job.

Lily:

You guys are an incredible pairing and I think that that's awesome that you get to work together.

Collette Divitto:

I love my mom very much. I really do. She can be too much. She, I love her so much, always from the bottom of my heart. But she can be very hard on me. But that is actually part of tough love from her, but once again, love from me. I am her daughter and also she is my mom and she can do everything she actually can do. And she always have been telling me, so many times, “I going to give you the best life possible.” I live on my own, independently. I pay all my bills. I walk everywhere. I walk to the gym. I have long walks; I walk to get coffee. So that's why.

Erin:

I think it's so important to have family that doesn't think that you can't do anything. It gives you that respect. And it is tough love, but I think it does help, especially if you're disabled and you have to deal with society. You have that backup, you have your mom, I have my parents, so it's very important, I think.

Collette Divitto:

Family comes first. Yes, it is. I always think that, I always go to church and I go to church every Sunday. It's big to God. And I always think that, always. So I am a caring person for everyone, not just me, not just me being my own person. I have to think about other people, which I have. I worked on it every second day.

Erin:

We see that with what you're doing to help other people with disabilities.

Lily:

Your care is apparent and it's really wonderful. I'm really grateful for everything you do. And I think I love a family shout out. I know in season one, we definitely shouted out our moms a couple times because Erin and I definitely lean on our moms a lot. And you're right, sometimes the tough love is the best because it's like when the world underestimates me, I know my mom is going to push me forward and I need that. And that's great.

Collette Divitto:

I actually do have a sister too. She is an amazing sister. Since we have been so busy with our own companies, all we have time is to talk on FaceTime or just talk on the phone. Not that often, since we have been really busy. But because having my sister, I love her, I love her so much just with my mom too.

Lily:

Is your sister older than you or younger?

Collette Divitto:

So I am actually going be, my sister is actually 27. She is actually younger than me, yes. And also she is a […] because with my sister, she used to be with me at the beginning at the start of my own company, but then she had to leave my company long time ago because she actually have her own business.

Lily:

Wow. You are a family of entrepreneurial women. That is incredible.

Collette Divitto:

I know. But for my sister, she actually goes to Nashville. She goes to Las Vegas for her business trip, for her company. She is actually an event planner.

Lily:

Oh, cool.

Collette Divitto:

And she loves it, but it's a lot of work.

Lily:

Yeah, I think that that is the underlying theme of your family is you're not afraid of hard work. That's wonderful. I think this conversation has been amazing and I really respect the work you do. I just think you're cool.

Collette Divitto:

You just make my day. Thanks so much.

Lily:

No, this has been really wonderful. I think that it's a super important conversation and is the point of this podcast. This podcast is called Everything About Disability is Wrong. And I think this, especially this episode is highlighted that a lot of people get a lot of things wrong in their own assumptions. Well, thank you so much for this episode, for talking with us today, for sharing your story and for everything you're doing to change public perception and to make sure that people with disabilities everywhere are getting hired. I think that this is one of Easterseals main missions, of course, is to help with workforce training and getting people with disabilities to be hired at places and just helping people understand that accessibility has to be a part of the workforce. And so I think that this is just a really important episode and I am so grateful for you coming on this episode.

Collette Divitto:

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to talk. I'm so happy I am on this podcast.

Lily:

Thanks for listening to this episode. It was so fun to get to talk to Collette and hear about this amazing work that she's doing within the community. I hope that some people's minds have been changed about what they think about what employment for people with disabilities looks like and realizing that disabled people can lead and be executives and create incredible things just like Collette did.

Erin:

Absolutely. Yeah. It's all about empowerment and kind of making your own way when other people try to stop you, which I think is what disabled people do all the time. And it shouldn't have to be that way, but it is. And that's very powerful. So I just love this conversation. Me too. And we'll see you. We'll see in the next episode.

Lily:

Bye.

Erin:

Bye.

If you like what you heard, go ahead and subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.

Lily:

Thank you to our listeners, and as always, thank you to Easterseals for giving us the space and resources to share such authentic conversations from within the disability community to our listeners.

Erin:

And I'll see you next time for another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong.