On Board | Season 2 Episode 2 | Steven Preston

Transcript

Steven Preston:

We are a very large enterprise collectively. We are a federation of a 154 different local, autonomous companies, their own their nonprofits with their own CEOs, their own boards, and their own territories. And so I run the the organization that that sits sort of on top of the federation. It's 100% about the mission. I had, throughout my career, had different opportunities to work with people, with various needs, either, you know, kind of on boards or, certainly when I was with the federal government directly. Building those capabilities because those foundations will serve you for the rest of your career. And as you go through your career, never stop learning, never stop asking questions, never stop developing yourself.

Kendra Davenport:

Welcome to onboard with Transparent Leadership and Easterseals podcast. I'm Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I'm thrilled to be joined today by Steve Preston, who is president and CEO of Goodwill Industries International. Really happy to have you here, Steve.

Steven Preston:

Thanks, Kendra. It's, it's really a pleasure to be here with you.

Kendra Davenport:

Well, I've been eager to talk with you, and I'll give everybody a little bit of background. You are what I like to think of as a unicorn. You have private sector experience. You have government experience. You have nonprofit experience. You have basically done it all. So in a nutshell, I'd love love for you to start off by telling our listeners how you came to be at Goodwill, and I know you've been there about 5 years. What led you to this job?

Steven Preston:

You know, it's it's 100% about the mission. I had throughout my career, had different opportunities to work, with people, with various needs, either, you know, kind of on boards or, certainly when I was in the federal government directly. And I I had increasingly developed a deep concern for adults who are what I would say sort of on the outside of society looking in. People who've had different difficult pathways, people who, maybe have made difficult decisions in their lives, and as a result, are unable to move forward in their lives. And it's just, such a missed opportunity for all of us. And so I believe very deeply in the potential of every individual and very deeply in the need to provide every individual with the opportunity to realize that potential. And so I actually wrote a personal mission statement for myself, to and and and about, you know, 15 months or so later, I got a call about the goodwill job, and my personal mission statement was effectively what the goodwill job was. And so, yeah, it was it was the issue set that that that that concerned me deeply. I decided to figure out how to commit my life to it. And, you know, you know, I felt like it was a providential call when I got the call for the goodwill role.

Kendra Davenport:

So I love that. Talk a little bit if you can about how this differs from previous, roles you've had. How does the nonprofit sector and Goodwill is a very, very large NGO. So how does that how does it differ from from previous roles you've had, whether there be in the private sector or in government positions with other small business association?

Steven Preston:

Yeah. So it it probably feels a little bit more like a private sector role. And, and so, because we are a very large enterprise collectively, we are a federation of a 154 different local autonomous companies, their own, their nonprofits with their own CEOs, their own boards, and their own territories. And so I run the the organization that that sits sort of on top of the federation. And so we work very hard to help every one of those 154, local organizations be as effective as possible locally by providing them services. So it it feels a lot more like a business enterprise because our local organizations deal with business issues every day, both, you know, in the retail market, many times business services, but also in how they deliver services to people in need because that is also part of our organizational structure. So for me, one of the exciting things about this was is I I love I love running businesses. That's what I've done in my life.

Right? I have I've been CEO of 2 companies, CFO of 2 companies, and and I love working with those local organizations on their business issues. The difference is, twofold. Number 1 is those are all autonomous organizations, and I'm a service organization that supports them. So, historically, when I've run companies, I've sort of run the whole operations and it's it's it's all been sort of part of my purview. This is this is a little different. Right? There's a real you know, one of the really nice parts about that is those individual organizations understand their local communities. They deal with other local nonprofits. They have their local boards, and they're incredibly committed to those, local needs.

But it is it can be a little bit more challenging at times to align people where we think there's value in aligning them. The other piece is every day when I get up, I think about the impact that this remarkable federation has on people in deep need and specifically people in the missionary that I just mentioned. And so that's a fundamentally different kind of motivator for me than working in a company. Now I believe there is great value in being a good leader of a company because I think I think the private sector fuels our economy and it's where most people work. It's where most people spend most of their time, and it's essential to have really effectively operating, you know, kind of well run corporations. But the motivation in this job, you know, is connected to something very different. It's definitely something that fuels me.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. I feel the same way. I've been in nonprofit my entire career and definitely feel motivated. I've had some opportunities to go into the private sector and just nothing ever materialized, but I think that's okay. My children, when I took this job and I they said, so you'll be running the show. And I said, well, sort of. You know, we have 70 CEOs about half the size, a little bit little bit less than half the size of of Goodwill. And I explained to them, you know, those are all independent, not unlike, you know, the Goodwills that you manage or sit above.

And they both 2 of my children just laughed out loud, and they said, so you have to democratize all your decision making? This is gonna be really good for you, mom. You're gonna learn a lot. And I think I think it's true, Steve. It definitely makes things more challenging.

Steven Preston:

Yeah. I'd also say though, it also can make things much more successful, you know, our so our our local CEOs are, we've just got some just tremendously talented people. They bring really good insight, into, how to address issues. They give us good insight in terms of what they need and what they don't need, and it helps us do our jobs better. And we we work very much hand in glove with local leaders, to understand how to design our services and our support to make sure we're we're hitting the mark and and supporting them in ways that they need, and that, we're not doing things that are irrelevant or superfluous because at the end of the day, we touch people through those local organizations. And if my team can help them, it can help the local organizations be more effective in doing that, then that's that's how we win. We win by helping them win.

Kendra Davenport:

Mhmm. I I couldn't agree more. And I do feel every time I'm in the presence of one of our CEOs or their team, I learn. I come away with a different perspective, one I maybe hadn't considered. And the the, you know, the CEOs and their teams that make up our affiliates, not unlike what you just described, they are the experts in their fields. And, I'm often asked, you know, what are your biggest challenges with your programs? And I say, I don't have any challenges with the programs. Our CEOs and our affiliates do a terrific job. My challenges come sometimes, not always, but sometimes in building consensus among the affiliates, all of which are different.

Kendra Davenport:

And I wonder if you could talk to that a little bit because you, I'm sure, encounter some of the same things that I do, in very similar organizations in many ways. I think Easterseals and Goodwill complement each other. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with consensus building now that you've been in this seat for 5 years?

Steven Preston:

Yeah. So among our 154 local organizations, we have, organizations that range in revenue from 3,000,000 to 300,000,000. Right? Different levels of size, different levels of, staffing as a result, different, different kinds of programs. So, you know, we need to be able to be supportive to all of those members, and many of them, as a result, have very different needs. And they have different views of the world, And they work in different markets. Right? So somebody might be serving more heavily in rural markets, somebody urban, somebody in a tech market, somebody in a in hospitality market. And so we need to we need to figure out how to bring support to them. And what we have found is, we have a a large body of services that we've developed especially over the last 5 years.

We just finished a big strategic plan. And in that, we built a lot of different capabilities supported by a lot of different technologies for people. And what we find is different people value different services, you know, based on that. So we need to make sure that that that the group of services we offer, that everybody gets value somehow out of that basket of services. And we'll have some people leaning heavily into so for example, you know, one of the things we do is is on-site consultations for people to help them, develop their retail capabilities. Some members have very large, very sophisticated, very high functioning retail operations. Some can use that support, from us. So, other cases on sort of the high functioning ones, those people may want our data and technology services a lot more because they have staffs that can analyze it and do all sorts of other things.

So we we we need to make sure that what we do, that everybody gets value out of what we do and that it lands in a way that is uniquely valuable to the organization, and their needs.

Kendra Davenport:

You know, I wanted to work this in, and I didn't know where there would be a good spot. But my second job out of college was with Goodwill. I worked for Morgan Memorial Goodwill Industries in Boston. And

Steven Preston:

That's the leadership. That's where we started.

Kendra Davenport:

I know. I know. It was terrific. It was a terrific, terrific experience. And and one of the things I came away from that experience with was, real insight, I think, in how to relate to people. At the time, Deborah Jackson was the CEO. And I don't know if you know Deborah or if you've ever crossed paths. She's just a very people oriented person.

And I used to watch and think, gosh, she's the CEO, and yet she greets everyone the same way, whether it's a program participant or a member of our staff or a visitor. And that her demeanor was something I've I've always kept with me. And I wonder if you could could speak to how you you know, if there if there are any hallmarks of how you engage with your team, how you relate to your team, and to, you know, goodwill teams writ large across the country. Is there anything that is intrinsically unique to you, Steve, in the way you approach, your employees?

Steven Preston:

Yeah. So, I love that story, by the way. And I think it really is it captures the spirit of who we are because every person we see dignity, we see potential, and we see, an opportunity for our own commitment to support that person if there if it's a person in need. So we really our our starting point is is is in that place. And if we don't do that, we're not gonna be able to care about people the way that we should. I think for me as a leader, I am, you know, I I I think it is really important for me, especially given the complexity of this organization and many of the ones that I've learned, is to listen really hard to what people say. I mean, and to and and to look hard at what they're doing and and and take that in and use that to not only encourage them, but actually take a step back and say, what is my role in helping that person move forward? Right? So for example, on my team, you know, my rule is if somebody at the team needs me for something, like, stop the engines, get them to me. Like, I want them to know that I support them.

I want them to know that they have my best thinking. I want them to know that I I will put shoulder to the wheel. You know? Same in the field. If people have issues, if I hear about them, it's really important for me to take that in to understand it and to turn it into something that's real. Right? You know, it's not only showing empathy, it's actually turning that into action and support. And that's how that's kind of how I, think about doing my job. I'm a I'm a I'm a pretty hard driver. So, you know, I have to sometimes I have to kinda keep that in check.

But, behind that is I think a real desire to move the ball forward. And, I never I never wanna be an impediment for people. I never want them to feel anything less than full support. And, and that's just kinda how I view the world.

Kendra Davenport:

Hard driver. Is that code for type a?

Steven Preston:

Yeah. Yeah. If if you looked at my strength finders, it would be all of that stuff. You know, achievers, the first one, you know, you know, responsibility, confidence, strategy, you know, belief. It's like all the Yep. We can get it done. Let's make it happen. You know, let's let's let's let's, you know, let's, you know, let's take the hill.

Kendra Davenport:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I think that's intrinsic with yeah. Many leaders.

Steven Preston:

It is. It is. But you know what? I think the important thing about the work we do is so much of what we need to do comes from our heart and from our deep beliefs of what is right. And I think without that overlay and without that motivation, you're sort of driving something that's, you know, like, where is this going and why am I doing it? Right? So, and that's again why I loved your story, because, at the end of the day, having that having that demeanor and that focus on other people is something that, if we can lead with that and have that deep concern be our fuel, you know, everything else kinda comes into line.

Kendra Davenport:

How do you refuel? Right? Hard hard drivers, type a's, people who are achievers, you know, put I think you said, you know, shoulder in. You put your best foot always into your work. Yeah. I I know you have a large family. I'd love for you, if you don't mind, to talk about that and whether or not your family fuels, you know, you, who you are, Steve, how you refill your cup when it's empty. Because I think as leaders, sometimes that's that depletion is real, and it's important for us to be able to replenish, to recharge, to, you know, just, take a step back and make make sure we're doing okay. How do you do that?

Steven Preston:

Well, you mentioned my family. I've got 5 children, all in their twenties. Actually, I should say they've got me. I'm not sure. And feeling. And just the yeah. Yeah. And and the best wife in the world.

So there's, there's definitely a lot of joy and a lot of, a strong foundation there. I'm also a person of strong faith, and I I very much take a step back. And, when the stresses of life are really severe, I do take a step back and I tried to like, I I really try to think about the bigger picture of life. And, especially, a legal organization with such a strong mission, you know, the value of our mission and how getting through stresses should be irrelevant if you're thinking really about driving the mission forward and making an impact there. And the third thing is I have to tell you fitness is really important for me. I've been an avid cyclist for over 35 years. I'm still 1. I mountain bike, road bike, gravel bike, and, probably too aggressively than I as a you know, especially the mountain biking, I should I should.

Less aggressively, The the, the falls are harder to recover from and sometimes end up with a doctor's visit. But I'd say it's it's those three things, and, and they're all really important for me. And I know that in all of that, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to, have those sources to recharge.

Kendra Davenport:

That's that's great. And you and I could have a a conversation offline about all of those things because I think the same way. My my family, my children are in their twenties, all 3 of mine, and, and they are a blessing and and sometimes a trial. You know? But I do learn a lot from my children depend on my family. Faith, very important to me. Exercise, not quite as much as as you, but I have a husband who's an avid mountain biker, and I've recently had the conversation with him that, you know, he doesn't bounce as well as he used to, and maybe he shouldn't go so hard. So I think you're aligned there.

Steven Preston:

I said it's probably not a problem to ride this hard, but it is a problem to fall this hard.

Kendra Davenport:

For sure. For sure. Talk to me a little bit. I've been at this a long time. I have never deviated from the nonprofit sector. So I have very, I think, well, I have strong opinions about everything, but I have very strong opinions about where the nonprofit sector is today. And I'll just give you a little bit of insight. I really believe that that for NGOs to thrive, they need to put collaboration first.

Kendra Davenport:

Right? They really need to use your expression, you know, put their shoulder into collaborating and not just with with corporations, but with other NGOs. And whether you disagree or agree, I'd love to hear your perspective on the nonprofit world today, how goodwill fits, and some of the things that that you think about as you operate, you know, one of the largest NGOs in the country.

Steven Preston:

Yeah. So I I agree with you a 100%. I do think nonprofits need to to collaborate. And, locally, when you think about, serving people in need, people's needs vary. They're often multifaceted. And unless you have sort of collective impact model that works locally, you'll miss the opportunity to Davenport people the way they need to be supportive. So for example, our actually our model for delivery is one that taps into support from other organizations. So let me just kinda lay this out.

If somebody comes into a Goodwill and let's say there's a job training program that they wanna participate in, we typically will do an assessment of their skills, where they wanna go in their job, what the pathway to get there is. But you know what? Giving somebody helping somebody get digital skills if they've got 4 other challenges in life and have never been on that pathway before, isn't gonna be successful. They probably need a job coach or a career navigator is what we call them. They may need transportation support. They may need housing. They may need may need childcare. They may need mental health support. In many cases, we're we're seeing that.

And so and if we don't have a body of partners locally that we can refer people to to help them through that journey to be successful, Our ability to succeed in in in helping them move into a job successfully is gonna be significantly diminished because people have multifaceted needs and it's it's it's you're you're supporting a whole person with a whole body of needs. But if we can do that effectively, we help them collectively. We help them move through all of those challenges and ultimately land in a role where they can be successful and provide for themselves and their families and hopefully move move forward in their lives.

Kendra Davenport:

Mhmm. Can you talk about 1 just personally, I don't I don't necessarily mean Ari Goodwill, but to you personally, what's one value you believe has to exist in an organization to for things to work, for people to like working there, for people to work together?

Steven Preston:

I think in terms of lots of things, so it's hard to boil it down to 1. But I have always worked, in service organizations. I've never been part of a manufacturer or research. I've always been in service organizations. And one overriding factor in all of those organizations is everything you do, every bit of your success is based on what your people are doing, you know, throughout a complex service delivery process. And, and you have people that work on those processes. You have people doing all sorts of things, but then you have the front line talking to customers or people that you serve. And if you don't have a culture that helps those people engage, allows those people to flourish, and very importantly, brings the best thinking of the organization together irrespective of what the level of person is.

You will miss an opportunity to be a great corporation. And there have been a couple of times when I've been in the middle of very significant turnarounds where I think the biggest problem we had is is all sorts of communication blockage everywhere, and as a result, an inability to move forward and resolve issues. In 2 cases, you know, I came into a real collapse of the organization. And and and and it's also extremely hard to unravel those challenges and and and and bring and build a different kind of a of of esprit de corps and engagement and commitment when that brokenness exists in an organization. It lies with the people in the effective functioning of those people as partners in a in a in a healthy ecosystem or or or not?

Kendra Davenport:

Switch gears with me for a second. If you could, tell us, did you see yourself in this kind of a role 3, 4, 5 years ago, or is this a surprise to you that you're here where you are?

Steven Preston:

You know, that's a great question. So after I left the government, you know, I ran a company. We sold it. I ran another company. And, it's funny. Before I went to government, I had a real pull to do something different in my life that had made a different kind of impact even though I had 5 little kids at home and a great job and everything was going really well. Then I flipped and went to the government and moved everybody to Washington. But I had a real real sense of calling that I I like, I wanted to have a different kind of contribution in life.

And then after the government, I left and I went back to the private sector. But then, after the second company, I felt that same pull again. And so I was very open to what the possibilities were, and I did not go into it with any preconceived notions of of what the next thing would be. So I knew that nonprofit was a possibility. I knew that I was built or am built sort of as a business person and I've led a number of organizations so that I had to I had to acknowledge that. There are many corporate there are many organizations I would not have been probably happy in. But I wasn't surprised that I ended up in a nonprofit. I was surprised that I was fine able to land in a nonprofit that was so completely connected, with what I cared the most about and, also very much connected to where I thought my skills were.

Kendra Davenport:

It's great. Talk to me about productivity hacks. Is there one thing you do that helps you be as productive as you can be. And I'll give you an example. I am a really early riser, and if I don't have the opportunity to have that mental headspace between, like, I don't know, 4:30 and 6:30 AM, I find my day doesn't go as well. I like that time to have that time unfettered. And and, yeah, it is kinda kooky to get up that early, but it actually helps me be more productive throughout the day when I have that. Is there something that helps you be productive or that you rely upon, to get things done and be as effective and your best self as you can?

Steven Preston:

Yep. It's not like what you just said. In fact, it's pretty similar. I know and, you know, given the role you have, the the the work is multifaceted and requires different kinds of thinking. I am often, you know, up to my eyeballs in data or operational issues, business design issues. I might be doing a podcast like right now or doing you're doing media or giving a speech. Might have board meetings. I might be meeting with groups of members.

Steven Preston:

So the preparation and the thinking through of those things are very different and require me to invoke a different part of my brain and energy based on what it is. So, you know, not dissimilar from what you just said, I find if I'm gonna, you know, if I'm gonna sit down and I really need to think through a complex issue or write something or, I need I need a space and it is usually in the morning. I'll try to block out time in the morning or very, you know, be be that as it may. It's often often on the weekends where I can just not be bothered by secondary issues and just devote that mental space. And I will tell you, you know, the best days I have are when I open up my calendar and the first meeting's at 10:30 and I just you know, I'm a machine. Yep.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. I get through it. I think through it. Having that executive time.

Steven Preston:

I'm 10 times more efficient. It is so important. Totally agree. And then often, you know, it's so it's just knowing where you're the best. It's knowing what what the requirements are and where you're the best in meeting those requirements in the space that you have and then leaning into those those those areas of productivity.

Kendra Davenport:

Tell me one thing we can't Google about you that no one would know. I know. Interesting question. Right?

Steven Preston:

So when when you're in the federal you know, I my job's in the federal government. I was running agencies. And the way that it works is in the agencies, so for example, at HUD, my picture would be on the wall next to the president's picture. Right? That's just it happens that way in all the buildings. So people have this image of you based on video speeches, based on pictures of you, and, at it was this has happened to me so many times where people would get in the elevator with me and see me for the first time and say and say, I thought you'd be taller. And I'm about 5 6. I'm about 5 6. I'm about a £150.

I'm not a big person. I you know, I'm not, you know, I'm kind of I you know? Good things come in small packages, but, yeah, I haven't seen that in any any news reports. But it was always one of these things for me. So yeah. And then then the other thing I think is yeah. Like like, what made you feel like it was okay to say that? Which, of course, I didn't care.

Kendra Davenport:

In this hybrid world where we're on the the phone so much and people see this much of us, you know, shoulders up. I've had several people here at at Easterseals say, oh god. I I thought you were much, much taller than you are. And I think, well, why? You've only ever seen my shoulders, but I think it's, you know, I I I just think it's the way you you present yourself. You know, maybe that's it.

Steven Preston:

You just wanna say, obviously, a different kind of statue was coming through the, the video script.

Kendra Davenport:

There you go. You're gonna take the positive. Right? Look look at it through a positive perspective. Tell me, if you can, what is one thing you think people misunderstand about you or don't get right?

Steven Preston:

I think, you know, especially because of the kinds of roles I've had, you know, where, you know, Goodwill is a, you know, massive organization. Right? And it's got a a big name attached to it. I, you know, was incredibly blessed in my government roles, but I was on the cabinet. I did a lot of media and I've run companies. And I often say I, you know, I think my resume gets there before I do. And, and people can make a lot of assumptions about you based on titles and roles. And I'll never forget when I was a CFO of a company. I was CFO of a pretty pretty sizable company, and somebody came into my office to present some Easterseals, and I could tell he was really nervous and, you know, was kind of having a hard time with the presentation.

And when he left, I said to one of my colleagues, like like, what was the issue with that guy? Like, he's like, don't you know? Like, he was really nervous to be presenting to you. And I said, but, like, why? Like, it's just me. Right? Like, I I'm just like and and my wife used to joke that when I come home from work at after in the administration, we had 5 little kids at the time, and she's like, it's amazing because you're coming home from the White House, and we've got 2 kids wiping their nose on your leg. Right? So there's there's a substance.

Kendra Davenport:

Check your ego at the door. Right?

Steven Preston:

I'm a super down to earth person. I actually think, I just love talking to anybody and hearing their story. I came from, you know, pretty humble upbringing and my parents much, much more so. And so I connect with you know, I I often just connect with different people than I see every day and I love to do that. And so I think people make assumptions about who you are, but at my core, I'm probably something that looks very different, than what you would see on my resume.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you for that. I'm I'm sure that's true. And my husband worked for 2 administrations, and we used to tell him when he came home, you know, you're just dad here. You know, you're just dad. You gotta you gotta empty the dishwasher.

Steven Preston:

Yeah. You know what? You don't wanna be anything else than dad there. Yep. Like, you don't want that stuff.

Kendra Davenport:

That's so true.

Steven Preston:

Right? And it's when I was when I was in the government, I really felt the need really felt the need to get away from it because my role and the public nature of my role was beginning to infuse itself into the lives of my children. And I like, we moved away from Washington and to a place where they where they're on the corner with the school bus and nobody really knew about it. You know? You don't wanna be the job title. You wanna be the human being.

Kendra Davenport:

That's so true. That's so true. Talk a little bit. I have just a couple more questions for you. I really appreciate your time, Steve. As a parent, is there any anything you bring to your role as the head of Goodwill that you think resonates or is borrowed from your role, your very active, engaged role as a parent? Are there life lessons that you bring from from parenting 5 children, now, you know, young adults Yep. To your job?

Steven Preston:

Yeah. It may be good or bad. I I probably tend to be a fairly paternalistic person anyway. And, you're like, I'm the guy who will unfortunately tell anybody advice and, you know, if they're going somewhere, I'll draw them out for them before they leave. And so but it's pretty natural for me to go into a situation with somebody else and in feeling accountability to them, as people, even very difficult people. I I often wonder what my accountability is in those places to change the relationship or the situation. And so I think as a parent, what's really important is you see the reaction of your child or the behavior of your child in the context of what they're going through personally and what they're going through life. And so often the people we deal with in the workplace, we deal with their you know, we may deal with behaviors or reactions that we don't always attach to what they're going through in life.

And and so I often find myself in a situation where I say, okay, that was a difficult meeting, that was a difficult engagement. I wonder if there's something else going on there right now. And in fact, just yesterday I was in a situation where, where there was something going on. And I realized after I got off the call that the person was actually, sick. Number 1, dealing with, not feeling well. And number 2, under a tremendous amount of pressure. And there were things coming out in that conversation, I think, that were indicative of both the stress and the emotion and the, just the physical situation that he was in. So I took a step back and said, actually, I need to reach back out to that person and listen to what's going on.

And, hopefully, come out of that in a better situation as a result.

Kendra Davenport:

Mhmm. I have a a very good friend who's told me many times, you're only ever as happy as your saddest child. And I think that is is true of all parents. Right? We we live through our children. And I think I love your response because I feel the same way. I think it is very easy to become detached from what people are in their personal lives or what they're what they're grappling with. And as a leader, you know, you're driving forward. You're a hard driver.

Kendra Davenport:

I think I am too. And I always wanna try and stay in touch with the fact that at the end of the day, we're all human. Right? This is a job or or, you know, an avocation maybe, but but it is a job. And I think that empathy is intrinsic in many parents who really enjoy parenting, who enjoy that that role. I think you bring it into your into your work role. And just to build on something you said, you know, you said you used the word advice. If you were to be asked by someone, and I'm sure you are because I am frequently, asked by somebody who's much more junior than you in their career just starting out. What would be, you know, what they could do to get ahead? What they should do to advance professionally? What would be your advice? What's your stock answer? Is there something that is standard advice that you think everyone, regardless of their role, needs to do this or should focus on this?

Yeah. Well, I actually get asked this question a fair amount. I I I'm pretty open to talking to people's children, to talking to people mid career. And, the one thing I tell especially young people is assuming you're landing in a place that you wanna be and, you know, it's a you know, you're using your gifts, etcetera, etcetera, Invest in learning and development, especially early in your career and never stop investing in learning and development. It's really, it's not uncommon for me to talk to people saying, you know, I'm 22 and I wanna start my own business and this is what I hope to do. And if that's the way you're built and you're ready to do it, fine. But I often say, you know, think hard about where you hope to end up and whether or not you're building capabilities and and and, building technical capabilities, building organizational capabilities, seeing how things work, building those capabilities because those foundations will serve you for the rest of your career. And as you go through your career, never stop learning, never stop asking questions, never stop developing yourself.

Because, I often get concerned that people will end up 4, 5, 6 years down the road and they just don't have basic competencies that they should have that they need to fulfill their aspirations. And, you know, I started out right out of business school at a large financial services firm where I was, oh my gosh. It was like boot camp every day. And, you know, 20 years later more than 20 years later when I was, you know, the housing secretary and I was, right in the middle of the housing and financial crisis. In fact, I was on the board of the TARP. What I learned at that financial services firm in the 1st 8 or 9 years of my career was very, very, you know, beneficial for me and understanding what was happening in the world with, you know, all of these messy financial instruments and everything else going on. And, and it enabled me to be more effective in that place. And it would and it it would have never happened if I hadn't invested myself in the deep understanding of development earlier in my career.

So I people should never underplay that and never and and and always feel like, you know, the the, you know, the painting is never done. Right? You you you know, that you you keep filling in throughout your life.

Kendra Davenport:

Great advice. I have so enjoyed talking with you and have just, wonder if there's anything you want to share about Goodwill Industries International before we go to our final question.

Steven Preston:

You know, the thing I would say the thing I would say is, is this. We drive through neighborhoods in our cities where we look out the window and say, oh my goodness. Like, this just isn't getting any better or what do you do about this? We look at people coming out of prison or coming out of addiction or whatever and just sort of, you know, attribute characteristics or have a sense of hopelessness about it. And what I would say is I I I just firmly believe that every one of us should look at those people and say there is an opportunity for more. There is an opportunity for support and a pathway for more that's not only good for that human being and their family, but that's good for our society, for our companies, for our culture, and everything for our economy. Especially, at a time when you've got 8,000,000 unfilled jobs and and employers are telling us that they can't find people with skills they need. It is good for everybody if we can help people develop into their fullest potential and move into it, you know, it it it and to do that through training and development and ultimately career success. And so I think what I'd like to leave people with is to say flip the script on who people are and what the possibilities are, and we need to commit together to helping people move forward.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you. Great answer. We, really like to end our episodes with ask me anything and ask me anything segment, so stick around for that. But before we do, I wanna ask Steve one final question, and anyone who knows me knows I read. I'm a voracious reader. I'm an insomniac, so I I read all night, and I love books. What I wanna know, and this, I promise, is my final question, is what's one book do you would recommend that every leader should read? Is there a book?

Steven Preston:

Well so, you know, I've read I think business books are very situational. A lot of other kind of books are situational. So I I don't lean into one business book. I'm I'm very much focused on, when I think about reading bigger issues in our society, big leaders and what they've done and how they've thought about things. And I I I I kinda try to get myself into a bigger headspace than on a particular business issue. One book I've read, and it's a few years old right now, but I think we all feel just, the just the weight of conflict in our society and not only conflict, but, but contempt for each other in a way that's really destructive. And I I actually think, I think it's the greatest problem we have as a society is our ability to put together put away preconceived notions and come together with openness and humility to address big problems. So a few years ago, Arthur Brooks, who's now a professor at Harvard, but he ran a big think tank, and he's done a number of other things.

He wrote a book called Love Your Enemies, How Decent People Can Save America from Our Culture of Contempt. And he really leaned into this space, of caring about people, and loving people and understanding who they are and coming to them with openness and humility to listen, and find common understanding as we seek to serve, solve the big issues. And, I just loved the way he both named the severity of the challenge and put upon all of us the burden of moving forward by how we act, how we treat people, and even more importantly, what inside of us is happening and how we ultimately care about people. So, yeah. It was a great book, Love Your Enemy, Arthur Brooks. And I think, you know, it's a few years old, but it's still a book for our cultural moment. And as leaders, I think we have the ability to have a different kind of voice in these conversations.

Kendra Davenport:

I think that's a great book given what's going on around us and the the rise, I think, of vitriol and negativity and mean spiritedness, not just in politics, but but across all industries. So great book. I will put that on my list. Where can our listeners, go to follow all the good work that Goodwill's doing?

Steven Preston:

Goodwill.org. You go to goodwill.org. We've got, got all the good stuff.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, well, terrific. Thank you so much, Steve. It's been a pleasure. Really, really am grateful for your time and your insight. Loved our conversation.

Steven Preston:

Thank you so much. I I really enjoyed it too.

Kendra Davenport:

Now on to ask me anything. A friend of a listener asked them if she was too old to go back to nursing school. So the question is, what would you say to someone who wants to change careers but feels like they are too late or too old to do so? And I think this is a great question. I don't think you're ever too old to change careers or, change your focus of your professional life. In fact, I think everything you do in your professional life is applicable to something else. And I think if you really want to make a change, say, you wanna go back to nursing and you're a teacher now or you're in nonprofit and you wanna go into sales in the in the private sector, you'll draw on the skills that your current job has helped you hone. And then it's just applying those skills. But I think more than anything, it's just believing in your capability.

You know, believing in yourself, having the confidence in yourself to say, I can make this change. I'm totally capable of this. All of us, I think, have in us multiple professions and some of us, and I'm constantly amazed when I meet people throughout the Easterseals network who say, I've been with Easterseals 30 years. I've been here 20 years. That is incredible to me. And I think, could I have stayed one place? Maybe, maybe not. I think I change. I tend to change jobs when I'm ready for more, when I'm ready for greater responsibility and yet never deviated from the nonprofit sector.

There is a part of me that has always wanted to go into the private sector, but I just never felt I could leave the nonprofit sector and be as fulfilled because I think that's one of the benefits of working for a nonprofit whose mission you are passionate about. And yet, most of my friends, most of my dear friends work in the private sector, and they love their jobs, and they're completely fulfilled. And a few people I know have made radical changes. For example, worked in very success private sector jobs and then started a business. That's something that appeals to me and my husband very much. So we think of that as our retirement gig. But I I definitely think anyone can make a change, and I think it's all really in the way you perceive yourself and the way you view yourself and putting your best foot forward and being your own best advocate. And instead of thinking negatively, like, you know, I can't do that, or I'm not gonna be good enough, or I'm not I don't possess the experience, or I'm too old.

I just eschew that and and really believe if you want it badly enough and you believe in yourself, you can you can make any change. Easterseals empowers people with disabilities and their families to be full and equal participants in their communities and within society. Easterseals is where everyone can feel welcomed and people know that they aren't judged, but treated with the dignity that they deserve. Each day, we provide life changing services nationwide and advocate for policies that improve quality of life. From employment to housing services, to job training, child care, and respite care, adult day programs, and so much more, Easterseals is making a profound impact in thousands of communities every day. You can learn more by visiting easterseals.com. That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening.

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