Episode 6: Mark Raymond, Jr.—On Experience and How Being Wrong Can Be So Right

Episode 6 Show Notes

Welcome to On Board with Leadership, a podcast hosted by Kendra Davenport, President and CEO of Easterseals. Here, she speaks with leaders from some of the country’s top organizations, and together they explore how transparent leadership can impact communication, trust building and foster a culture of openness and accountability. We hope these conversations offer you practical insights and tools to positively impact your organization.

Today, Kendra is joined by Mark Raymond, Jr., CEO of the Split Second Foundation. Mark is a figure synonymous with resilience, advocacy, and transformative change for individuals with disabilities. Drawing inspiration from his grandfather, A.P. Tureaud, Mark's efforts have significantly shaped initiatives in the Greater New Orleans area and beyond. His notable achievements include renaming historic streets and landmarks in New Orleans and pioneering a more accessible, comprehensive rehabilitative health infrastructure in the Gulf South. Mark's exceptional ability to foster relationships and spearhead healing-centered, coordinated change has been crucial in elevating the lives of those facing the greatest disadvantages.

Mark's journey toward advocacy was deeply personal, catalyzed by a life-altering shallow diving accident in 2016 that resulted in paralysis. This incident not only changed Mark's life but also exposed the stark disparities in accessibility and support for people with disabilities. Compelled by his experience and the lack of available resources, Mark transformed his adversity into a powerful force for advocacy. The Split Second Foundation emerged from this transformation, embodying his commitment to raising awareness, advocating for rights, funding innovative research, and providing effective strategies to enhance the quality of life for individuals impacted by disabilities.

Links:

• Learn more about Mark Raymond, Jr.
• Connect with Kendra Davenport.

Transcript

Kendra Davenport:

Hi, I'm Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals and you are listening to On Board with Transparent Leadership. An Easterseals podcast where I speak with leaders from some of the country's top organizations. Together we explore how transparent leadership can impact communication, trust building and foster a culture of openness and accountability. I hope that our conversations can offer you practical insights and tools to positively impact your organization. In this last episode of our first season, I'm thrilled to be joined by Mark Raymond Jr. CEO and founder of Split Second Foundation. I got a lot of positive stuff to say about Mark and I really want you to know who we're talking to today. Mark's work within the community and through Split Second Foundation has earned him numerous awards, including a couple of 40 under 40 lists, New Orleans Magazine's Ones to Watch and the Millennial Change Makers Award.

He has a deep-rooted history of serving the community. Building on the legacy of his grandfather, A.P. Tureaud, Mark has played a vital role in advancing various efforts across the Greater New Orleans area and beyond. From renaming historic streets and landmarks in New Orleans to creating a more accessible and robust rehabilitative health infrastructure in the Gulf South, Mark is driving coordinated healing-centered change. His commitment to advocacy started as a child but was intensified following a shallow diving accident in 2016 in which he damaged the vertebrae by the base of his neck and lost the ability to walk.

For Mark, this life-changing experience illuminated the reality of disparities in access and there were very few community resources to turn to for help. His new disability and the lack of support ultimately pushed him to advocate for millions of others by transforming the split second that led to his injury into a life filled with awareness, hope and action. He founded Split Second Foundation to make people aware of a growing population of individuals impacted by disability, advocate for their rights, fund cutting edge research and provide clear cut steps to immediately improve their quality of life. I've been really excited to have this conversation and can't wait to hear more from you, Mark. Welcome. So happy to have you with us today.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Well, I'm so excited to be here, to have this conversation. I'm sure there's so many things that we are connected on that we don't even know we're connected on, right?

Kendra Davenport:

I think you're absolutely right. And I have to just tell our listeners, I was introduced to Mark by one of our affiliate CEOs, Tracy Garner in New Orleans, and she had been telling me about you saying, "You've got to meet this guy. When you meet Mark, you will just feel the energy he emits and you're going to like him. I think you're going to be kindred spirits and I think you're going to really get along and I think he and Easterseals are going to really work together." So all of that happened in record time when we were introduced. We had a terrific first meeting in conversation. So this is only our second conversation and I have so many questions. So digging right in, Mark, I've read that bio now probably to myself three times, on air one time, and it just screams overachiever. Tell me how your accident really compelled you to jump in to what you're doing now to found Split Second?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Overdriven, yes. Like a kid just lost, constantly looking for something to do. So tinkering was my thing, especially when I worked in the broadcast world. I didn't become this driven to towards purposeful work until after my accident where all of the challenges were staring me in my face. So it was like I had a new type of problem to troubleshoot. And when you sit in it and you're dealing with it day in and day out, you're going to solve your personal problems. But for me it became, okay, this is a problem for everyone here though. So how are we addressing, and not just this problem, but all the related problems that affect how we can live high quality lives post-disability? So yes, you are right in your assumption that my accident and the adversity that I think I've lived with and dealt with has absolutely sharpened my focus of my drive and now I'm just driven to fix it all. If I'm going to fix something, we're going to fix everything.

Kendra Davenport:

Well, that's what I love. You're a powerful advocate. You are definitely passionate about what you're advocating for, which is change, greater accessibility, greater resources, greater help for people who sustain injuries and people who are disabled, but you're doing so much more than just advocating. I remember after our first conversation, replaying some of the things we discussed and being struck by how many aspects of life you are advocating in for people with disabilities. And some of them are related, but a lot of them aren't. You were able to open Split Second Fitness, for example, which I'm fascinated by because it's the first accessible gym in the state of Louisiana, which just is mind-boggling that there's yours, just one. And I know that that has an intentional focus on people living with paralysis, amputation and other neurological conditions, all of those things impacting mobility obviously. But tell me how that came about.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Well, again, problem number one that we were looking at was lack of resources in the community to continue the intense rehab journey necessary to live a life with a spinal cord injury. So when we got discharged from outpatient therapy, even when we got discharged from inpatient therapy, it was frustrating because I didn't have any place that I can go and continue that constant repetition of exercise. Inpatient, you're doing an hour and a half of each dedication, each vocation, hour and a half of PT, hour and a half of OT every day. But when you're discharged at outpatient, you have to build up to even getting two hours or an hour of PT, hour of OT three days a week, but you only get a certain number of visitations. And our recovery journey isn't just linear like that, so we wanted to provide a space where people can not only continue recovery but focus on muscle strength and all the related disciplines to keep a person healthy over the course of a lifetime, which fitness typically solves, you need to work out. A lot of times at PT, I find myself being forced to work on putting my shoes on when I really need to be working on the strength in my shoulders and my elbows and my core so I can have enough balance to even maneuver my shoe to put it on. You know what I mean? So that is really where that idea came from. I also went to Sacramento, California and participated in a great fitness program called SCIFIT, which gave me the idea for how I wanted to begin structuring programmatic offerings from Split Second Foundation. But it changed my life too, that experience, it showed me how not only was this a fitness environment, but it was the catalyst for a greater community and a community experience that uplifts everyone who participates …

Kendra Davenport:

A comradery?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

... the trainers... Yeah, it really is a family in a different type of way.

Kendra Davenport:

And I imagine because it's the only gym in Louisiana that specializes in helping people with paralysis and amputation, other injuries and conditions, I imagine it is a place where people feel really good about going and where they find connections with people just like them who experienced the same things.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Oh yeah, fitness was the beginning, what came from it was the social support, the emotional support, the new friendships, people hanging out outside of the gym that they met at the gym, the recreational engagements that we just have, the parties.

Kendra Davenport:

All the things. I love that. So you're addressing the physical, you're addressing the emotional needs that anyone might experience that comes to the gym. You're at the macro level working on several federal, state and local boards and commissions that represent and advocate for people. So I mean, you really cover the waterfront and you're one guy. In our first conversation, you seemed so attuned with legislation and with what is happening and isn't and we talked a lot about the inaccessibility of just mass transit and sidewalks in New Orleans. Has this been something, were you involved civically? Were you civic-minded?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I was civic-curious before my accident. I knew it was there, but I didn't know how it worked and all of the inter-workings, the departments, the governance structures and all of that. And this journey really stemmed with a conversation that I had with, at the time, the incoming mayor, LaToya Cantrell about the state of transportation and how it would take 25 minutes for me to schedule a ride using the paratransit system that the next day would come an hour late. Just crazy stuff. And she was like, "Well go over there and fix it, I'm going to put you on the board." I was like, "What? Okay."

Kendra Davenport:

She's going to put you to work?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Right. "Yeah. You clearly understand how this works or are curious enough to want to know how to fix it, so go fix it."

Kendra Davenport:

But you took on everything she offered and you're now the Vice Chair and the Chairman of the Finance Committee overseeing the planning and implementation and execution of a $109 million budget. Talk to me about that. I mean, I read that and I think about the founding of Split Second Fitness and all of the other local and state boards you serve on and just who you appear to be and think, Renaissance man, you're into everything.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I'm actually the chairman of the board. I've been the chairman for a year and a half now. And so being at the head of a local agency, we're actually a state agency, working on inner parish and quite frankly, intergovernmental affairs consistently and learning how the relationships matter, cultivating the relationships and then at the same time, understanding operationally where are our challenges. For most organizations, infrastructure is the biggest challenge. New Orleans is a old city, we're sinking, so the streets are always bad, which means vehicles are always getting damaged because they're taking so much impact, which means we'll always have a fleet replacement issue and it's keeping up with that. It took me a while to learn it all, like anything, and I'm still learning every day, don't fully-

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah, but I think you probably thrive from learning. You seem to.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I enjoy being wrong. The more I'm wrong, the more I'm curious, the more I'm curious, the more I'm trying to solve problems. If we're always right all the time, you're going to stop …

Kendra Davenport:

You can't learn.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

... solving the problems and you got to learn.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

It's an adversity thing too. I think about losing teaches you how to win, not getting those grants teaches you what they're looking for. Losing pitch competitions teaches you how to win them.

Kendra Davenport:

It's the experience.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

It's the journey.

Kendra Davenport:

It's the experience. I think you liken it to experiential learning, I think is for many people the best way to learn. They have difficulty learning by just reading, they need to do. And I have a child like that who used to say, "Just show me physically what you want me to do. Show me and then I'll be able to see it. Don't just tell me, explain it." And I think we all learn in different ways, but I think that's what you're getting at.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

And the space that we exist in too is CEOs and trying to make all of this work, find the money. The variables are constantly changing, so you have to stay curious. They're not always going to fit and being able to adjust to all of those different situations and still keep the ball rolling up the hill is fun. And the curiosity behind solving the next issues, it keeps us going. I know it keeps me going. I'm one of those people too, if I'm not going forward, I'm going backwards. There's no stagnant.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, I get that.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

There's no sitting …

Kendra Davenport:

I totally get that.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

... in just one spot. If I'm not going forward, I'm pulling my hair out of my head-

Kendra Davenport:

There's a saying, I say it all the time, "I would rather course correct on the backend than stop moving forward."

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Right.

Kendra Davenport:

Just keep going, we'll, course correct later. And I think that's a drive that leaders have. And all this you're doing while you're managing your foundation. Why did you establish the foundation?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I established the foundation because I wanted to make and focus the business aspect of what we were going to do on impact and being able to impact and affect as many families as possible. So from a macro lens, New Orleans is a poorer city than San Francisco. I was paying $100 an hour to go to that fitness program, so I burned through a lot of capital and it wasn't sustainable. But my health has to be sustainable, so how am I creating something that's going to impact the most people, that's going to be cheap and also centered on health and wellness? There was no other option than the nonprofit. And then we established the board and I picked people from pretty much every professional departmental aspect. Marketing, legal, communications, administration, and made sure I had all of those voices at the table, healthcare, because that was what it was going to take to build this and build it the right way. Lay a good foundation so that in year four when you get the audit done, you don't have any findings. And about hiring staff, we were really intentional about doing this slowly and doing it the right way, making sure that we had people who were the right fit and we've been able to do that over the last five years.

Kendra Davenport:

I think I'm a big believer in cultural fit. And it's a delicate balance, you're trying to balance an awful lot of things, especially working within the disability community. I want our teams to be welcoming and multifaceted and fair. That's really hard because you need the skill sets too. How are you doing that? How heavily in the equation does someone's experience matter to you?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

So I was blessed, the first person I've hired was my mother's sister, who's an administrator and she's been our administrator to director of admin to chief admin. My second hire was the physical therapist that worked with me while I was in inpatient. So I had a relationship with both of these people on the backend. Now what I'm looking for are the things that you talked about, and it's a combination of all three. It's gut, skill and also chemistry. I'm looking for fit.

I can teach skill and I'm patient too. But I'm looking for those people who are really going to go above and beyond for the people that we serve, is okay with being wrong and also being curious and learning and figuring out how we can continue to innovate. It's 2023, everything is changing too fast. And so if people aren't willing to constantly be looking for, okay, this worked, but there's a new solution, will it work right? And will it make this experience better for the people that we're trying to serve? And I'm the idea, can't sleep guy, because I'm always pacing and thinking about it. So I have to dump stuff on them for them to begin to figure out the logistics of my little brainstorm and then we'll circle back up, see how far they got, I'll add some feedback.

Kendra Davenport:

You're like a tornado, right?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Yeah, I'm just the puppet master.

Kendra Davenport:

I recognize that madness. It's a blessing and a curse. You guys recently were awarded a $100,000 grant by the GNO Foundation. What was that like for you and your team and to receive that news?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Honestly, it was humbling. I had a conversation with another team that was competing in that pitch competition. You get so conditioned to be told no and to not win that it's almost like you're waiting …

Kendra Davenport:

To rejection.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

... for rejection so you can get past it and get back to work. Because no matter whether you won or lost, you got to keep going forward. So prior to them walking in, I really hadn't thought about what I would say if we won and I was speechless. So it was gratifying, it was all the things and it's a reflection of their work and I think how the community has responded to it. And now we're thinking about other aspects of disabling conditions that we really need to be involved in, like grief counseling post-death for families. That's another split second moment that is disabling for folks. I remember when my nanny's mom died, it took her a year to really get out of the grieving depression and how can we assist families with that? So I'm constantly coming up with stuff like that.

Kendra Davenport:

You're on track. And I think more and more organizations are taking a step back and instead of relegating mental health to the back burner or something that's just an HR function, process it out, have an ERG, Employee Resource Group, and don't address it. They're starting to say, "No, mental health." I think if COVID did anything positive, it was really help focus us more on the importance of mental health and on the fact that so many people struggle with mental health issues. And if you couple those issues with a disability, it's even harder. Couple it further with some other element that someone's struggling with or grappling with and I think they have difficulty functioning and I think it is important that employers focus on that. Which leads me to my next question. So you have this intense positivity about you and I wonder how you infuse that among your team while you create a welcoming culture and while you deal with some of the challenges. How do you balance your positivity and your drive and create simultaneously a really open, healthy culture at Split Second?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Organization culture, it starts with the top. And so when I was building this, I wanted it to feel like that because people with disabilities need that. You're surrounded with the negative, with all of the problems and there's few places that you can turn as an individual with this type of intense needs that pours into you a level of positivity that just makes you want to go a little bit further, a little bit harder, make another right decision, being who I am because I have to be that. Otherwise, I'd just be frustrated. Life is hard. My life was extremely hard the first two years after this and I'm not going to allow it to steal my joy. I just have balanced that attitude into, and we're also going to get some stuff done while we do this.

Kendra Davenport:

Love that. Tell me, apart from Split Second, apart from all you're doing with legislature, talk to me about what you do to keep yourself buoyant. What gives you joy apart from all this? And I know you're going to say, "This is my joy, building this." I get that, but there's got to be something that we can't Google about you that you could share with our listeners that would give them a little insight into what you like to do when you're not doing all of this work.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I'm a big ambassador of the city of New Orleans, so I'm always out at social events, sports events, festivals. Now I'm even on a board for the French Quarter Festival. Super excited about that. Pelicans games, I'm a big basketball fan. I'm really into crypto, do a lot of research around crypto and super functions of it. And it's so funny hearing some of the conversations related to crypto when I'm asking, just polling people randomly, "Hey, you thought about buying some? Blah, blah, blah."

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, it runs the gamut, right?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Right. It really does.

Kendra Davenport:

Tell me this. Is there anybody, and it could be somebody you know or it could be somebody publicly that you look to, that you draw from, either you draw expertise or advice?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Yeah, it's my mentor, Flozell Daniels Jr. He was the chairman of RTA when I started this journey and really helped keep me in the guardrails and going in the right direction, but also keeping me hungry and humble. Someone that I don't know or don't know as well who helped shape my thinking around organizational structure was the Pelicans' senior vice president, David Griffin. He came in and really wanted to change the image and the internal feel of the organization. He wanted it to feel like a family. And I really enjoyed watching the transition, watching the moves that he made, the people that he brought in to align with that and now to see where they are and how bonded they are as a team. Again, I'm into basketball so I could see them making a run because they really enjoy being around each other and people who enjoy being around each other work harder for each other and better.

Kendra Davenport:

Yep. There's a book and a member of our board of directors shared it with me in his podcast called The Advantage by Lencioni, and it talks about what you just described, which I really think is the health of an organization. Is an organization sound? Is its health sound? Meaning do the people enjoy what they're doing? Do they enjoy each other? Do they share ideas freely? Are they okay with making a mistake? Do they look forward to going to work in the morning, whether it's sitting at their home office desk or going into an office? And basically what comes out in the book is that there are a lot of companies that are super successful that burn through people, that have a lot of turnover. And then there are those companies that are uber successful, that have people who stick with it 5, 10, 15 years. And one of the things they all have in common in the super successful companies is that they enjoy what they're doing and that the health of the organization, which I think is what you described, what you're trying to create.

I am just enjoying this so much. So I thank you. Thank you for your candor and your honesty and your relaxed, easygoing nature. It just makes this so much fun. But we like to end our episodes with an Ask Us Anything segment with our co-hosts from the Easterseals podcast series, Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong, so stick around for that. But before we do, I want to ask Mark one final question. So anybody who knows me, Mark, knows I read constantly. I read everything. If you were going to let our readers know one book you love, it may be something you read a long time ago or something you're reading right now, what would that book be?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

It's funny, I popped open a book app because I was like, what am I currently on? Scaling Up is one that I'm reading, Business Growth and Development. Another one is CEO Excellence. And the last one, my favorite one, Catching Up to Crypto. I think everybody [inaudible 00:23:59].

Kendra Davenport:

Back to the crypto.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Yeah.

Kendra Davenport:

Back to the crypto. I lied, I have one more question because I can't let you go without asking it. What's next? What haven't you conquered? What do you see on the horizon? What's looming out there that you haven't even touched yet, but it interests you and you think, I'm going to do that someday?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I want to get a bill passed through Congress that addresses the nation's caregiver shortage and the fact that mothers don't get paid as caregivers. When I think about disability and I think about the most affected population, it is the secondary folks. It's me, but my mom has to take care of me. My mom had to quit her job to take care of me. So as a nation of caregivers to see that and to see her, she can't receive any government compensation is baffling to me. And there's already so much pressure on the system, and I know that this is something that Easterseals is interested in.

Kendra Davenport:

You're speaking our language.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

I definitely need to figure out how to get this done. But for me, it's building the coalition to... That's next.

Kendra Davenport:

I'm so glad I asked the one additional question because I think our listeners needed to hear that, I needed to hear that. And you and I talked briefly about that once before, but I definitely think we will join forces and the shortage of DSPs impacts, direct service providers, people like your mom should definitely be compensated. It's a broken part of the system and we could be helping so many more people if we just fix it. And it's not going to take that much to fix, in my opinion. I think it just takes voices like yours who are speaking passionately and sharing their personal story. So thank you for the candor you've given us today. Where can all our listeners go to learn more about the work you're doing?

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

You can follow all of my antics on Instagram, Mark Raymond Jr. Split Second Foundation also has an Instagram. And we are also starting a YouTube channel where we will inevitably do our own podcast. And I want to center ours actually around split second stories because everybody has one and has learned to deal with life post-disability in different ways and all of those solutions. And I think hearing all of those stories really helps new families going through it. So having a place that they can go and learn about other people who have been impacted by disability and hear hope and positivity spoken into them, it goes a long way.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you so much. This has absolutely been the highlight of my week. Thanks for your time, Mark.

Mark Raymond, Jr.:

Thank you, Kendra. This has been great.

Kendra Davenport:

Erin and Lily, I'm so glad you can join me as leaders in your work and as co-hosts of the Easterseals, Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong podcast. Let's go to our Ask Me Anything. What have you got for me today?

Lily:

Hey, Kendra, glad to be back.

Kendra Davenport:

Great to have you.

Lily:

What a phenomenal season you have had, your first season of this podcast. It's been such a joy to listen to.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, I love this. You know me, I'm a talker. I love the opportunity to talk, so appreciate the mic and appreciate your questions.

Lily:

Our final question of the season, I love because since joining the Easterseals team, you have continued to inspire me and make me want to do great leadership type work. So my question is how do you inspire and motivate your team to achieve their best performance? Keep in mind, I'm on your team so I know this, but tell the listeners how you have such a motivated team.

Kendra Davenport:

It's something I try to look for new ways of doing all the time. I think you need to start by bringing your A game as a leader to the team as much as humanly possible. We're all human and we all have bad days, but I like to think there's good in every day. Not every day is a great day, but there's good in every day. And I try to find that and I really try to live on the optimistic side of life. And so I think that's critically important because who wants to follow someone who's a curmudgeon, who's a stick in the mud, who's not optimistic, who finds the negative before they find the positive? No one. But I also think you need to find ways of drawing your team out of their shells and learning about them. And one of the things I've done for many years now at multiple organizations is one-on-ones. Creating a space.

And it's tricky. This is a small team of fewer than 60 people, between 50 and 60 people, but it's still a lot of time for a CEO to commit to meeting with everyone for 45 minutes to an hour, individually meeting with them. There's so many reasons I do it, but one of the primary reasons is to better understand who they are, to better understand how they see their job, how they regard their role, what their understanding is of the work they're being asked to do for Easterseals. But beyond that, who are they? What makes them tick? What do they do in their free time? I'm always amazed at the skills and the talents people have that no one at work ever really taps into or maybe even knows about. And the reason for that is because we're all head down doing work, we're not asking, we're not developing relationships.

In this hybrid world we're living in where some people are in the office some of the time, many of us are working from home all of the time. I think it's harder and harder to develop those relationships, build those bonds at work that create the comradery, which I really believe, I believe work comradery is like a glue. And it's a glue that joins us together, that gives us the same sense of purpose, we're all working together. But also it helps us remember that every one of us is human and that each of us is waging battles that no one knows about every single day. That is what being human is, going to work, as I said, bringing your A game, bringing your positivity when you might be dealing with something personally that is anything but positive. We don't have a lot of high tolerance for that in the American business world. We want everyone to get through their stuff and get to work and apply themselves and be able to compartmentalize things that are bothering them.

I believe that if you really know your team and they know each other, then they make space and they give each other grace when somebody's having a bad day, when somebody misses a deadline, they don't immediately jump to malintent when somebody leaves them off an email chain or forgets to invite them to a meeting. And in fact, what ends up happening, if you stored those qualities among your team, if you help your team to bring their best, is that you create an environment where kindness is what leads. And I think that's often underestimated in the work world because if people are kind to one another, there is a modicum of respect.

My dad used to say something to me that stuck with me my whole life because I can remember complaining to him about someone at work that didn't like me and they weren't nice to me. I was right out of college, and I was like, "They don't even know me and yet they treat me this way. I don't understand it." And he said to me, "Kendra, you don't have to be everybody's friend at work, you just have to respect them and they have to respect you. And if you make friendships at work, well then that's gravy." I believe that, but I like to think that we can create a friendly, warm, kind environment where people can thrive and where people can be happy for the success of their colleagues. That's the kind of space I want to build. And I think it begins at the top, I think it begins with a leader who, as I said, brings optimism and positivity and can be self-deprecating and realize that everybody has flaws including me, but chief among you is me. So I hope that's responsive.

Lily:

Yeah, that makes total sense. And I think that from the other side, I was one of the newest members on the team and one of the youngest members when you started. And those one-on-ones, I mean, for me, mine was career shifting in that it was in our one-on-one that it just felt like, "Wow, this woman, my CEO is actually curious about me, about who I am." And I was working in our CRM and data and you were the one that was like, "I think you need to be on our brand team." And now we're working on the second podcast. That level of genuine curiosity created such just an open environment in this workplace for everyone to be willing to say, "Hey, this is what I'm good at and this is what I want to do." And I really commend that and I hope everyone listening tries to lead like that because it's been really wonderful in my career. So thank you and thank you for such a wonderful season.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you. I love hearing that. I love hearing that I've had a positive impact on you. You certainly make a positive impact on this team and this podcast is something I'm very proud of. So thank you for a terrific season. Thank both of you, Erin and Lily. I appreciate you.

Kendra Davenport:

That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review, like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And join us next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with transparent leadership.