Episode 7: Pam Green — CEO Confessions: Transforming Nonprofits & Shaking Up the Status Quo!

Episode 7 Show Notes

Today, we're honored to have a special guest, Pam Green, President and CEO of Easterseals Redwood, joining us to explore the heart of collaborative leadership and the dynamic challenges of serving a multifaceted community.

As a powerhouse behind a $30 million operation spanning two states, Pam has dedicated her career to championing purpose-driven businesses. Easterseals Redwood offers pediatric medical child care and employment services. It is also at the forefront of workforce development with its packaging and fulfillment centers, integrating individuals with disabilities, veterans, and the economically disadvantaged into our community.

Throughout this episode, Pam will share her journey and the profound stories of impact that fuel her passion for giving—stories like the remarkable transition of a young boy who went from preschool at Easterseals to a successful career as a shoe designer. Pam's dedication to culture-building has transformed Easterseals into an environment where learning and growth are celebrated.

Today, you'll also hear from Pam and me about our professional experiences, the mentors who've shaped our paths, and the daily strategies that keep us balanced and driven. Pam will also reflect on her admiration for the emerging socially conscious workforce and the organizational shifts taken amid the COVID-19 pandemic to ensure safety and productivity.

So stay engaged on your commute as we delve into everything from the nuances of nonprofit leadership to the inspirational moments that remind us of the true scope of our work—at Easterseals and beyond.

Transcript

Pam Green:

Disability services can sometimes be a very white middle class service system. Because of the work that we do with people in poverty, when solutions are being recommended, we're the ones at the table raising our hand and saying, what about people in poverty? When we're in the poverty space, people are talking about solutions and we're the ones raising our hands to say, what about people with disabilities? Because that is the single highest concentrated demographic group in our country. I think that's important. I think we need more narrow focus.

Kendra Davenport:

Hi. I'm Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals. And you're listening to On Board with Transparent Leadership, an Easterseals podcast where I speak with leaders from some of the country's top organizations. Together, we explore how transparent leadership can impact communication, trust building, and foster a culture of openness and and accountability. And today, you know, I am joined by Pam Green, president and CEO of Easterseals Redwood. And I will just say, I think Pam's been with Redwood, about 20 years. But before that, she was a a CEO in a fortune 500 company. So tell us a little bit about yourself first, Pam, because I just love you.

Kendra Davenport:

And I've only known you for for 2 years since I've been at Easterseals, but you were one of the most, I have to say, one of the warmest CEOs I met, and I met you at the summit, which was about 6 months into this role for me. And you couldn't have been, more welcoming. You're just an outgoing gregarious person, and I'm so glad you're talking with us today. But tell us a little bit about you, and then if you could go into Easterseals Redwood and your role there. Sure.

Pam Green:

So I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I started my career. I did an internship in college for Kelly Services, the staffing company. And, was fortunate enough to be offered a position, stayed with Kelly for a number of years, lived all across the country in different cities. And I was one of those folks that when September 11th happened, I said, maybe time to make a career change. I may not want to to be traveling all the time. So took a little bit of time off and with my children, and I decided when I came back to work, I wanted to work in a purpose driven business. And I was so fortunate that the first person that I spoke with was my predecessor here at Easterseals Redwood. And I I told my husband I was in a the our legal recruiting arm.

Pam Green:

So I spent a lot of time, like, you know, negotiating offers and those types of things. And I told my husband, after the second time I met Lisa, said, you know, the only thing crazier than the fact that she offered me the job on the spot was that I accepted it on the spot. And, that was 21 years ago. And so I've I've never never looked back. I absolutely love this organization and everything that we do. I did not have a lot of personal connection to disability when I joined the organization. But since then, I have benefited from learning from people with disabilities and really, having a front row seat around what acceptance really looks like. So Easterseals Redwood is, about a $30,000,000 organization.

Pam Green:

We are in 2 states. We are in Northern Kentucky and Southwest Ohio. We have about 450 employees, and our services range from, prescribed pediatric medical child care all the way to employment services. We operate 2 social enterprise businesses, and a variety of opportunities to ensure people have the opportunity to live a full and meaningful life.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you. Thank you. I had the great opportunity to visit Easterseals Redwood not so long ago. And I I was I was impressed by the scope and scale of the operation, what you just described. Everything from little babies that are essentially medically fragile to a workforce development, what do you call that, your center?

Kendra Davenport:

Do you call it warehouse? Do you call it the center? Because it's enormous.

Kendra Davenport:

Talk a little bit about that because I just found that so moving and and it was a beehive of activity, and I think people would really enjoy hearing about what goes on there and how you're how you're expanding right next door.

Pam Green:

Absolutely. So, our packaging and fulfillment center, is a key part of our workforce development efforts. So like many nonprofit organizations that serve people with disabilities, we were founded as a sheltered workshop in the seventies by a group of parents who wanted to ensure that their kids had opportunities to work. And it was a wonderful solution for a long period of time, but the world changed, and we decided we needed to change too. And that we weren't really preparing people for employment if they only spent their day with people with disabilities. If what we really want is folks to integrate into the community that needs to start in our services. And so in 2017, we decided to convert from a sheltered workshop to a social enterprise. We employ people with disabilities.

Pam Green:

We employ veterans, and we employ people who are economically disadvantaged in our community. So as you know, Kendra, when you walk in, there's just this incredible energy. And, You know, I, I'm so proud of what we've done. And I, I think I, you know, I said in, an op ed, recently in our business career, like, you come to the Easterseals, if you're worried about what acceptance looks like for your business, come see what it looks like here. Because more than 25% of our workforce has a disability diagnosis, and we're growing by, I think, 5th, an average of 15% per year. So it's, a remarkable place.

Kendra Davenport:

It is. And you're absolutely right about the energy. I was very, very moved. Right next door to it, you are building something else. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I was equally moved by that and how it dovetails into serving the populations you employ.

Pam Green:

Yeah. So, the we're in the middle as you know. It's a a $30,000,000 campaign to significantly renovate our facility to become a regional impact center. And so we've expanded the packaging, and fulfillment center by over 50%. Another piece that we are incredibly excited about is we are opening a military and veteran service center in our building. We've operated a veteran employment program for more than a decade, and, and this center will be a hub. We're gonna have, a gaming room. We're gonna have a workout facility.

Pam Green:

We have lockers for the homeless veterans that we serve. We have a computer learning lab. We have space for partners to come in. The VA will have regular office hours there to help our folks connect to benefits. We have an employee whose job is to help folks navigate the VA benefits system. And so, at Easterseals Redwood, I think we're committed to 2 things. And the first is never charging any veteran a fee for any of the work that we do. And the second is serving any veteran regardless of discharge status.

Pam Green:

Because, you know, a lot of people join the military when they're young and, we all make mistakes. And so we feel, we feel like a person who has signed up to put their life on the line for their country shouldn't be penalized if they've made a mistake. We that's actually when we need to be there most to lift them up.

Kendra Davenport:

I couldn't agree more. So tell before we go to you, because I have a lot of questions for you personally, but I wanted I wanna ask one more about, Easterseals Redwood because it it is, again, it is an it is a an affiliate that has number of service lines, and you've described them so well. But was there something that people are most surprised to learn about Easterseals Redwood, that you're always eager or or eager right now to share with with our listeners?

Pam Green:

Yeah. I think people are are quite frankly, the very thing that you've just, that you've just said. People are always surprised by the scope of the work that we do. And I think a piece of it is that, we view ourselves at sitting as sitting at the intersection of a lot of different systems. And we talk at Easterseals Redwood all the time about systems change. What are we doing to make the world better, not just for the individual, but for the way it functions? And so when we serve a family, we find quite frankly that, a lot of the people that we serve with disabilities can't work because they are unable to secure appointment, to secure employment because they have so many medical visits to go to. So maybe we can offer them a position in our packaging and fulfillment center to help stabilize their lives with a flexible work schedule. You know, we do a lot of work with disadvantaged youth, many of whom have undiagnosed learning disabilities.

Pam Green:

And how can we help them get skills? We do a lot in the construction training space, to help folks connect to careers that lead to the middle class. And so I think there was a a study years ago by Bridgespan. And one of the things that they found was that single issue causes, I'll use health, like American Heart Association, for example, that it's it is easy for people to understand the work that they do, And they are excellent work at working within service systems, but it's actually multisystem agencies that have it have driven the greatest social change. And we view ourselves as being right there. You know, disability services can sometimes be a very white middle class service systems. Because of the work that we do with people in poverty, when solutions are being recommended, we're the ones at the table raising our hand and saying, what about people in poverty? When we're in the poverty space, people are talking about solutions, and we're the ones raising our hands to say, what about people with disabilities? Because that is the single highest concentrated demographic group in our country. And so, I think that's important. I think we need more organizations that have a deeper understanding of multiple service systems versus a a narrow focus.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. And I and I couldn't agree more because as as you know, at the national level, explaining every day to people in the corporate community or on Capitol Hill, what we do is a challenge, and we've been around for more than a 100 years. But but you articulated it so well. I think we do so much across 70 affiliates, and every affiliate is different. So thanks for going into that. That kind of teed me up for something I thought when I visited you guys, and you gave me the tour, and I I actually found it a little daunting. The size, the scale, the scope, the the age range of the people you serve. And I remember thinking after that first day, and it was a long day, but I got back to my hotel and I thought, that is an awesome responsibility.

Kendra Davenport:

And you seem to carry everything in stride. You don't you're very even keeled. You're very happy. Your team, the culture you've fostered is very happy. So can you tell me a little bit about how you do you compartmentalize things? Have you just over time gotten to a point where it isn't super stressful all the time? What's the secret, Pam?

Pam Green:

Mhmm. So, you know, one of the things that I love about being at Easterseals is that our work puts it in perspective every day. You know, I I was interviewing someone for a job one time, And, I mean, I was interviewing a candidate. And unfortunately for him, I knew immediately he was not gonna be the person that I was gonna hire. So I will be honest. I'd sort of checked out a little. And he asked me, you know, a standard question. What do you like about working here? And it really caught me off guard.

Pam Green:

And I started talking about how being at Easterseals, keeps you from taking work for granted That, like, we can all get up in the morning and gripe and complain, and it's Monday. I don't wanna go in. But for the people that we serve, regardless of what label they walk through the door with, work is like a puzzle they're trying to unlock. A lot of them have cycled through a bunch of different jobs. They don't know why they're not succeeding. A lot of them have barriers in their life that prevent them from succeeding, whether it is a cognitive delay or a criminal record. And when you see people who want so desperately to succeed at the world of work, it it it changes how you feel about your own work. And, it really does help you to keep in perspective that what we are doing helps people provide for their families.

Pam Green:

It helps them connect to a social network. And I know it's it's maybe a little hokey, but it it it it is. It's the mission that, and everybody on our team is, is committed to that. And so I think that's the other thing about, like, what makes it easy is when you work with amazing people.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. Can you talk a little bit about, I mean, you and I, you're younger than me. I'm pretty sure by a lot. So you and I have been at this a long time. And and I think we've both gotten to a point where we genuinely enjoy what we do. But but to your point, I could not agree more. The mission makes makes the not so great parts of our jobs, you know, palatable and and an appreciation for how fortunate we are to have the roles we do. But if you were gonna speak to someone who was early on in their career, let's make it a woman.

Kendra Davenport:

Right? Because I think you know how I feel. No offense, guys, but I think women are juggling a lot more than men on any given day. So if you were gonna talk to a younger version of yourself or someone who's just entering the career, what what would be the advice you would give them?

Pam Green:

Yeah. It's a great question, Kendra. I think, you know, I think there's this awful, the, I, I, I would dispel this myth that, you know, find your passion and you'll never work a day in your life. That is not true. I mean, 5% of the people in the world know what their passion is. So if the rest of us are sitting on the sidelines trying to find our passion before we dig in and do it, you know, I tell my own children this. Like, it will find you. I was an English major when I was in college.

Pam Green:

And

Kendra Davenport:

Ditto. This is why we get along so long.

Pam Green:

It is. It is. I this is not the future that if somebody had said, you know, what do you wanna do? I would have never said I wanna be the CEO of Easterseals.

Kendra Davenport:

What'd you wanna be in college?

Pam Green:

You know, I wanted to teach, of course. I wanted to be get my PhD and teach linguistics. That'd be a bit of linguistics professor. So anyway, but that sounded like a lot of work from an academic perspective. And I I like people. I like people too much to live in the world of the mind. And so and so I think that's that's the one thing that I'd say is that, there is good work to be done. And I had a mentor one time that, said, even if you've decided you hate your job, make sure that you're taking the opportunity to learn what you need to for the job you want.

Pam Green:

And great advice. That was great advice. That was it really I I was in a an a position at that time that I really didn't like. And, and then I was like, oh, well, you know, the position I really want is this. So what do I need to do now to prepare me for what I want? And I think that is, is another, key, a key thing for me. And, you know, I will tell you, Kendra, the young women that I see right now are absolutely amazing. Like, they don't stand for the crap that I had to. And, I am I am I am so in awe of Gen z and what they're bringing to the workforce.

Pam Green:

I think a lot of people bellyache about them. That has not been my experience. Both, you know, both the young women and the young men, they're, I think they're much more, committed to a more welcoming world. And that includes gender. It includes sexual orientation. It includes disability status. It includes mental health. I mean, it's it's there's amazing stuff going on in the world right now.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. You and I, I think, talked about this a little bit one time. I think when I was out visiting you, I think young people today, and I and I feel so old when I say that. Like, I'm ancient young people, but I I think of my own children who are all in their twenties, all 3 of them. They are so much more aware, socially conscious, just conscious of what's going on in our world and how they fit in. And I think that that makes for really interesting employees. And I do love that there is a greater sense, I think, in our workplace of work work life, home life balance, because I can I'm sure you'd agree. I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

Kendra Davenport:

Maybe you wouldn't. But when I was in my thirties, I worked. I kept my head down. I did whatever I was asked, even if I went home saying, that was so inappropriate. I shouldn't have had to do that. I shouldn't have had to get my boss's dry cleaning, which I did, you know, with my own money. You know, I've got paid for it, but still, you know, my girls would never tolerate that. So I think that's a benefit.

Kendra Davenport:

But talk a little bit if you can because I think I think we've been privy to tremendous change in in workforce since you and I probably started our careers. And one of the things I think is is to me the most fascinating is and it was brought about by by COVID, is this hybrid work we're doing now. I don't wanna put you on the spot to tell me where you stand, but, yeah, go ahead. Tell me where you stand on that and and how you're mitigating it because I have to say it's one of the biggest benefits, I think, but it's also one of the biggest challenges as a manager.

Pam Green:

What do you think? I could not agree more. We, so alright. I'll I'll go back to during, you know, during COVID with our, our packaging and fulfillment center, we build test kits for clinical trials. So our customers, biggest customer is Pfizer. So we never closed during the pandemic. We were there every day building test kits for the vaccine trials. And so there was something about that experience that, you know, the thing that we said to our employees in that moment was, if you have the privilege of being able to work from home, you have to do so right now. Because we're on the front lines of this right now, and we have to do everything that we can to protect those people.

Pam Green:

We had folks that were in our day programs that were closed, that actually volunteered. I mean, they were paid. Don't get me wrong. But they volunteered to subcontract with our partners in residential services because the residential centers didn't have staffing during the day because they were used to folks being in day programs. So this COVID with our team, was really a, we're staying homes because you can't, and we're gonna make sure that we're not there. Interestingly enough, pre vaccine, I think after the vaccine, we all got COVID. But pre vaccine, the only employees that we had that contracted COVID were people who were working from home. Our people who came into the into the office every day all stayed safe.

Pam Green:

So that was, that was just an interesting irony. Yeah. Yes. It is. But when you think about like, so here we are, you know, all these years later, and we continue to embrace a hybrid work style. And what we're starting to see, we also had this added, complication because with the renovations that are happening in our building, people don't have an office to go to. And so the part about that that's been awesome is we've started to see how much people miss it. And so some people want to be in the office.

Pam Green:

But I've always led with a philosophy that if you treat people like adults, the majority act like adults. And, we we've tried to lead it that way. And so far so good. So far so good.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I am a morning person. I get up super, super early, and I get some of my best work done in the first half of the day. When do you do your best work? And what do you feel personally about hybrid? Do you like being in the office? I mean, as a leader, you need to be in the office an awful lot. But if you could work from home, would you prefer it or do you prefer being around people?

Pam Green:

I think I know the answer, but Yeah. So I'm the I am the the yan tier yang. I am an evening person. And so, like, I hit my most productive hour, like, at 3 o'clock. And from 3 till 8, I am cranking. That is, like, when I go. That is when I go. And so I feel like that's when I have that's when I I I do my best.

Pam Green:

It was interesting, you know, in the past when I needed to do like thinking work, I would say I'm gonna work. I'm gonna work from home today to get that done. During COVID, right, I was home every day. And I I started losing that sense of, okay, home provides clarity for work. And so I started saying, okay, I've got a lot of do to do a lot of thinking today. I'm gonna go into my office and, you know, again, because I had to limit my exposure and shut the door. And so, I'm a hybrid person. I really am.

Pam Green:

There are days I love being in the office. I need that energy. There are days when just the physical surroundings of work when I'm working on a project kinda spur my creativity. And then there are days when I'm like, I just need to be uninterrupted at home. And so maybe that's one of the reasons I'm so flexible about it with my team is because I see that for me, having the best of both worlds, I feel like has made me a better employee, and I hope that it does for my team as well.

Kendra Davenport:

What do you do to replenish? What do you do to replenish your energy, your spirit, your head space? Because you're in a really, demanding role with an awesome amount of responsibility on your shoulders every day. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Pam Green:

Yeah. So, I think there's a couple of things. You know, they they say all that extroverted introvert stuff and all of that. I I'm I'm as I've aged, I've gotten to be a little bit more of that. Like, I love being around people. But when I come home, my husband is the biggest introvert that ever lived. And I am so grateful because he doesn't expect me to come home and talk to him. And so, I really do kinda, like, recharge just when I'm not around people.

Pam Green:

I love as you I love to read. I love to learn. And my friendships, quite frankly, are are really important to me. And so I think that, when you're in leadership, it's you know, leadership is lonely. Right? I I don't have a colleague in my office. And so having people that you can turn to, to to recharge you that way is is really important.

Kendra Davenport:

Do you have, I know you've mentioned it in the past, and I think you mentioned it just in in your comments in the past few minutes, you mentioned a mentor. Is there someone or someone's that you go to when you're stymied, when something's really, troubling you, or when you just want some affirmation and some, you know, support and maybe somebody to tell you, yeah, you're doing the right thing.

Pam Green:

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's great. I think I have a ton of people that mentor me, quite frankly. I I mentioned Lisa, who was my predecessor at Easterseals, and Lisa has, we are so lucky. We we congratulate ourselves all the time on the smoothness of our transition. And I know very few nonprofit leaders or in any field, quite frankly, not just nonprofits where there's been that sort of supportive handoff. And I was really lucky at the time that I became CEO.

Pam Green:

We were going through a merger with another organization and their CEO, Peter, could not be more different than Lisa. And he was by my side, and he showed me he stayed on to help lead the transition. And, I so admired the way Peter, allowed me my space and, you know, would give me his opinion when I asked for it. And that was, that was exactly what I needed in that time as a a new leader. And then quite frankly, the other mentors that I've had have been, I have been so blessed to have had the most amazing board chairs. And, I've had board chairs who really have, respected that I'm running a great big organization, and I've got a lot of pressure. And so, they have viewed their role as how can we ensure that you're successful, and they've really lifted me up. Even I mean, you know, we've had, when we I talked about, you know, the transition from a sheltered workshop to, a social enterprise.

Pam Green:

I make it sound really smooth. We lost over a $1,000,000 when we did it. It jeopardized the agency's reserves. It was it was brutal. And I couldn't have done it without my board chair saying, you know what? I I you're you're gonna lift yourself up. We know we're doing the right thing. We'll get through this. And, I I think Peter, Lisa, my board chairs, they have all been just great.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you for that. And you're lucky. You're lucky.

Pam Green:

Very.

Kendra Davenport:

But I think I think good recognizes good, so I'm sure they benefit from knowing you and working with you as much as you do them. You've talked about your husband. I had the pleasure of meeting him. He has what I think is an absolutely fascinating job. But I also think as an introvert, I'm married to 1. He's an extroverted introvert. I I force him to be that way, but I think it's I think it's tricky to be married to, someone who is out front and on all the time. You can talk a little bit about that balance because I think that goes to mental health and well-being.

Kendra Davenport:

If you have a a partner, who is supportive, that's wonderful. But maintaining that balance can be really challenging. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Pam Green:

Yeah. So, my husband and I were college sweethearts. So we've been together for a 110 years now. But, after, you know, we date a couple of years after college, we broke up for 2 years. And I I think it was during that time that, we both really assess what we want out of a relationship. And at that time, you know, I was growing at at Kelly Services. You know, I was the youngest person in this position and very ambitious. And I think we recognize the balance that we bring to each other.

Pam Green:

And my husband is, he's selfless, but really just one of the strongest people in the history of the world. Like, I'm like, you know, I get a little worked up and crazy. And, you know, my husband is like, hey, you know, it'll pass. It'll pass. Which in the heat of a moment, if what I'm going about is something he's done, him telling me that it will pass makes me wanna, you know, like throat punch him, especially when it turns out he's right. You know? I mean, this is not a divorceable offense. And so, and so I think that I think that having a strong partner by your side, sure makes life so much easier, because, you know, the times in my life when it's been the toughest, you know, a lot of times your work life is great, and, you know, I we've been married 30 years. It's not all roses and sunshine.

Pam Green:

Right? There are times when, you know, we are so on each other's nerves. And sometimes when that happens, your work is great. So I've got the energy to deal with home. And then other times, home is fantastic and work is killing me. And so it really does kind of start to balance things out. It's it's those moments when they're both out of whack that you really appreciate.

Kendra Davenport:

True or what?

Pam Green:

Yeah. There are a lot of similarities.

Kendra Davenport:

You and I will have to have dinner over this. And thanks for your candor on that. I think it's tricky because that's one of the questions I'm asked by, by younger employees. You know, how do you do it? How do you, you know, how do women do it? How do you have it all? And a lot of people believe you can't. I I'm of a mind that you just described it so well, and I think I I think I relate to that. You know, you can't have it all be perfect at all the time. And and I think there's a there's a, resilience, you know, to to working that that helps aid in a bet when things at home aren't maybe the greatest or or vice versa when things at work are are challenging.

Kendra Davenport:

But but striking that balance is really can be really tricky. So kudos. Thank you. You too. Thanks. Talk about, if you can, is there something you need to work? Is there a tool you rely on? I I don't care what it is. Is there something you think of, like, I can't leave the house without this or I can't get along without this. This helps me do my job.

Kendra Davenport:

Give me anything. And I'll give you an example. I I, Erin, my husband always says, you know, Kendra you're flying so fast. You you can't even see the ground. You gotta slow down because I do things like I just on the way into the office today, had to pick up a new pair of very expensive glasses because I left the last pair on an airplane. You know? And and so when I leave the house to get on the plane, Erin often drives me and will say, do you have your phone?

Do you have your glasses? Do you have your keys? Do you have your other keys? Do you have this? And it is almost childlike in it, and we laugh about it now. But I will admit, you know, 50 to 75% of the time I have to go back in the house or what typically happens. Erin goes back in and says, I will get it, sit here, and calm down. So I'm talking about little tiny tools, but maybe there's something else you need or use that gets you through your day or helps you do your job.

Pam Green:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. It's it's different. I mean, of course, my husband, because he he also retrieves my glasses and that I regularly my credit cards that I leave in restaurants. I could go on and on. I think it's a sign of genius though, by the way. Absent minded.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, I'm gonna take that.

Pam Green:

I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna take that. I'm sure that's what it is. But, I think, you know, when I get stuck at work, it's it's, it's it's sounds so pompous, but you're gonna laugh. Like, the Harvard Business Review gets me through my day sometimes. Like, when I am I've got, like, decision stagnation, fatigue. I I'm stuck on where to go. I honestly don't know that I've ever gotten, like, here's the answer that I'm looking for.

Pam Green:

But just getting my head out of the weeds and and trying to think a little bigger. And also, I think one of the things that's great is, you know, those things are never written about nonprofits. And so trying to think about how what does this mean in in my world and hearing what business leaders think about the people that I serve, you know, it really it's really something that I feel like, is a a great mind tool for me. Mhmm.

Kendra Davenport:

I agree, and I use I quote it, and I put links to HBR articles all the time in my daily messages to my team because I just think it's so practical. It's, and it's not it I don't think it's on purpose because I think HBR is written for people in the for profit industry. But I think the line between for profit and nonprofit started to blur about 20 years ago, and I would say and I'm biased. You know, I've never done anything but work in in nonprofit, but I think it's much harder to work in a nonprofit today. So talk a little bit if you can about, leadership in general. What do you think is the and I don't care. It can be nonprofit, can be for profit, but really at the macro level, if you think of leading a team the way you do, managing projects, managing your budget, managing for growth, What's the biggest challenge to leaders? I don't necessarily mean in your job, but when you think about leadership, what what do you think is the biggest one of the biggest challenges facing leaders today?

Pam Green:

The pace of change is constant. It is absolutely constant. And staying on top of that, as a leader is really tough. And and thinking what what what does this mean, not just, you know, this year, but what's this gonna look like in 10 years? You know? I mean, assistive technology and what the impacts are for people with disabilities, remote work and how that has opened up so many opportunities for people with disabilities. And so when I think about leadership, it's I am one of those, like, leaders that has, like, I don't know, 92 ideas a minute. And so that can be exhausting for the people that work with me. And so it's it's making sure as a leader that you feed the creativity and spirit of innovation in your team without exhausting them, I would say that's that is one of the the real challenges right now. If if if you're if you're if you're that type of leader and, you know, there's so many different types of leaders, but I think that that's that's one of the the greatest is is keeping up with change and not not wearing people out because I can come up with the ideas, but they're the ones that have to make them happen.

Pam Green:

And so, yeah, shut up, Pam.

Kendra Davenport:

What is the best compliment you've ever received?

Pam Green:

Oh my gosh. That's a great one. I think that it has been the, you know, I have a a daughter with type 1 diabetes, and she's she's struggled a great deal. And, you know, she was diagnosed as a teenager. So right when she's trying to be independent, her dad and I are having to insert our lives and manage her in a way that she was very resistant to. And so, I think one of, the nicest compliments that, I've ever gotten is, has been when one of my daughters has has told me that they admire me.

Kendra Davenport:

You're getting me emotional. I totally relate to that. Totally relate to that.

Pam Green:

Because, boy, most of the time, they don't when they're teenagers. Right? So when they finally say it, you're like, oh ho ho ho.

Kendra Davenport:

That's so true. Even in their early twenties, some days I feel like, I don't know how I got this far with all this advice. You know? This is really thanks so so much. No.

Pam Green:

Exactly. Exactly.

Kendra Davenport:

You have you made one major career transition, same? And I know I'm putting you on the spot, but but you can talk. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Broad strokes about it.

Pam Green:

Yeah. You know, it's it's an interesting thing because I've been I had zero intention of staying here as long as I have. I've been here for 21 years. And, I will tell you, I think people can stay in a job too long. And I hope I am able to recognize if and when that happens. I tell my board all the time, if I find a job I wanna do more, I'm gonna do it. But I'm not out there looking, and I do love this work. I even though I'm still at the same organization, the job I'm doing right now is so different from the job that I was doing 10 years ago when I was the CEO.

Pam Green:

We're a different place. The world has changed for the people that we serve. And so I think that, you know, I I I I hope Lisa listens to this. She'll be so she'll say it's the nicest compliment I hope that she's received. But when I first started, at at Easterseals, my, you know, I'd the the branches that I led at Kelly, we had won the the Baldrige award in Texas. And so we were I was kinda full of myself, and I thought that I was gonna come in and and teach this little nonprofit how to do things. And, I was like you said, nonprofits are so complex.

Pam Green:

And Lisa was so smart. And, and I just thought, wow. And, you know, she'd been here. She when she retired, she'd been here 33 years. And I'd say she was, you know, as fresh the day she left as she was the day she started. So I don't know that I wanna be here 33 years, but I hope that I can still be that leader. You know, we're going through this. My board members tease me, you know, like, we've lived in the the salad days, and now we're gonna get through we're gonna get through this, this this campaign and this renovation.

Pam Green:

And I'm just so proud to have put the organization in place in the position that it's in.

Kendra Davenport:

As you should be. As you should be. Anything on your bucket list that you haven't done, either personally or professionally, that you think, yeah. I gotta do that. I gotta make time to do that. I gotta make time to go to this place or that place or

Pam Green:

yeah. Yeah. That's great. This is kind of a weird one, I think. My my last board chair, Jim, he's amazing, and Jim's real woo woo. You know? He's he's an entrepreneur, and you name it. He's done it, in terms of, self exploration. And, Jim shared a lot about a silent retreat that he did.

Pam Green:

And quite frankly, for an extrovert like me that has to talk all the time

Kendra Davenport:

Like no talking?

Pam Green:

No talking. Nothing. Going around. No technology. And, I just feel sometimes like like you said, you know, you're flying. You're just flying. And the thought of just sitting with me for a couple of days sounds really good. It's something I'd like to do.

Kendra Davenport:

Wow. I know. Yeah. I that

Pam Green:

I don't know if I'm strong enough. He sent us through it. Harder than

Kendra Davenport:

He's making me uncomfortable just thinking about her. That's how much I thought.

Pam Green:

I saw many people say that actually, because I'm like, oh, that sounds so good. And a lot of people are like, oh, no. No way.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I love that. Is there anything you haven't shared about your job, your role, Easterseals, that you wanna share?

Pam Green:

I don't know. I mean, it is it's it's specific to Easterseals. It's it's a moment that, I had actually you know, you get these amazing moments all the time in our work. And, I had I had something that happened a couple of weeks ago that just really it's it's stuck with me so much. And, you know, we called I call donors to say thank you. And it's it's hilarious. You know, I call I say, hey, I'm Pam from Easterseals. And you just hear like, oh, crap.

Pam Green:

It's a telemarketer. And I'm like, no, no. I'm the CEO. And I'm just calling to say thank you. And then it's it's a different conversation. But I asked this woman, you know, because we went through the mergers, you know, you know, Redwood was a it the merger is only about a year and a half old. And I said, you know, you've been giving to Redwood for a long time, and she'd increased the size of her gift. And I said, you know, can can you share with me how long and why? And she said, well, actually, I can tell you exactly how long.

Pam Green:

It's been 23 years because that's when my son started preschool. And she said, my son's disabilities did not rise to the level of him being qualified for, you know, disability supports. He had a lot of speech delays. He had learning disabilities, and he came to he came to, to Easterseals Redwood, and he got therapy. He had this environment where he was the middle of the pack instead of the slow kid. And, he entered elementary, he entered, kindergarten at Grapevine. And she said, you know, he went on to, to graduate from high school with honors, graduated from college, got a great first job after college. And, the day that I spoke with her, he had started his new job, which was as a foot design of a a shoe designer for a major footwear company.

Pam Green:

And, she said, you know, I think about when his dad and I think about the trajectory of his life, like preschool was a real turning point. And I think back to those turning points in my life and like the people that there's almost always somebody that helped all of us. None of us got where we are by ourself. And, and and so I feel blessed to do this work every day. And the other thing that I love and then is that, hearing the stories of the impact of giving. Right? We all are besieged with requests all the time. Mhmm. And knowing the difference that that giving can make in a life, it it does make you a citizen of the world.

Pam Green:

It gets you out of out of your thing when you think about I'm gonna help somebody else.

Kendra Davenport:

It does.

Pam Green:

Service is important.

Kendra Davenport:

It's meaningful. It is meaningful. I had the pleasure of speaking to both of your boards at one of the events. I think it was one of the first events that you did jointly. And I just wanna I think this is important. You know this because you've been so candid and so giving with all of the information about yourself and about your leadership style. I was sitting next to one of your board members, and he brought his son. And his son was a little guy, like, I don't know, 9, 10, if that.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. And he was so cute, and I was so taken with him. And your board member leaned over to me, and he said, you've gotta bring them to things like this. And this was a sit down dinner with speakers. It was really not a child's event. And he said, so that they can learn. They can learn how to behave, and they can see you in action and learn from you, but learn from other people. And I said, oh, I I couldn't agree more, and I just love having him here.

Kendra Davenport:

And he said, well, Pam makes this possible. She's created a culture that makes this possible. And I think that's just one snippet of what was for me a very, very impactful visit. And you've heard me say a million times, I love spending time with affiliates, but I also really love meeting people like you because I think I draw on your energy and you are just you're something else. So at the at the end of ask me I'm sorry. At the end of these podcasts, we like to do this segment part of it called ask me anything. So stick around for that. But before we do, I wanna ask you one final question.

Kendra Davenport:

Okay. People who know me know I read. I'm a voracious reader, and I don't sleep. Although, I'm trying I'm really working on sleeping better. I think I'll be better to everyone around me if I get a little more sleep. But I do read a lot, and I read everything. I read everything from romance to biographies to self help to a lot of political books lately, and biographies. I'm big on biographies.

Kendra Davenport:

And I also read a lot about work. Do you read and if you do, I mean, read for pleasure, read outside of work. And if you do, is there something you can share, some book you can share with our with our listeners that you really resonated with you or that you're reading right now?

Pam Green:

Yeah, so, my favorite author of all time is Margaret Atwood. And so everyone thinks of The Handmaid's Tale, and I love The Handmaid's Tale. It's a wonderful book.

Kendra Davenport:

It's the first book that came to mind when

Pam Green:

Exactly. Exactly. But she has written, so many wonderful things. And, she actually has a a trilogy called orcs, the the mad Adam trilogy. Orcs and crayches, the first novel in it. And it was one of those books that when I read it, I thought, oh, that's pretty good. But, like, I found myself thinking about it and so much that came out of it. And so because it really causes us to think about the future and technology and food production and, I mean, just just so many things.

Pam Green:

So I think I am very mum I I'm very drawn to fiction versus nonfiction.

Kendra Davenport:

Mhmm.

Pam Green:

And, if she wrote it, I'll read it.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I love that. Pam Green, thank you. Thank you so much for your time, your candor, your energy, everything you do. This was just a real pleasure. Appreciate you. And now, on to Ask Me Anything. Question I get asked an awful lot is whether or not I have mentors in, my professional life, and what advice I would give someone searching for a mentor.

Kendra Davenport:

And I have to say, I don't know where I'd be without mentors. I use mentors, a myriad of them all the time, and, they include my dad who's 83. I go to him for certain things. My husband, from whom I've learned an awful lot about leadership and management, Think he has a very even hand in a very pragmatic way of of managing. And he had a a really stellar career in the military, where management was a big part of what he did, and he managed a very wide range of people, all ages and ethnicities and likes, dislikes, experience levels, and, I think did it very gracefully and very meaningfully. So I look to him, but I also have had the the great fortune of working with people, throughout my 35 year career whose opinion I value and respect, and I go to them. I go to them as well. And we've all had people in our careers where if we've been working for them or or or worked alongside them, maybe at the time, they weren't our favorite person.

Kendra Davenport:

And I think those are the folks that we really can learn an awful lot from. Because if you peel the the onion back on what bugs you or irks you about someone, if you respect them I mean, that has to be the leveler. You respect them, but they get under your skin from time to time. Typically, you know, those are things that you need to pay attention to. Maybe it's something that you you don't consciously recognize as being something that you're lacking, until you're confronted with it in someone else. I am thinking in particular of a boss I had where he he made me laugh. I thought he was a good boss when I had him, but he would also, really push me. And I can remember one instance where I secured a pretty significant gift.

Kendra Davenport:

At the time, it was the biggest gift I'd ever secured. It was a $1,000,000 commitment, And I thought I was just I was the bee's knees, and I was expecting an awful lot of congratulatory adulation when I go back to the office. And I remember he was congratulatory, but but not over the top. And I remember going back to my office, and I must have shown it. You know, I do wear my heart on my sleeve because he he came to my office before he left that day, and he said, hey, Davenport. You know, you did a great job. That was that was really good. But it's important to know that success has many fathers, and that stayed with me.

Kendra Davenport:

It has stayed with me. And so whenever, you know, younger employees come to me and they are irritated or frustrated that they maybe didn't get the credit they felt they deserved. Those words stay in my head. And I think, okay. Well, where did this start? Who else was involved? Were you the only person? And I think a lot of the time, you know, when you when you flip things like that, you do recognize you couldn't have probably done it all on your own. And there were other people, and I think that kind of humility is hard one in today's world where we're all in social media and we're vying for likes. And it's very, very, tempting to to focus or overfocus on the good, on the positive, on the things you really like, and and not focus on the things you have to work on. I also have mentors that I just use to kick the tires.

Kendra Davenport:

You know? Tell me if this is crazy or not. Tell me if you don't agree with this. And I have one another another person who managed me for a very long time, and she is a very conservative manager. So I often go to her, and this is gonna sound crazy, When I I know I'm right, but I wanna I wanna just pressure test my response to something. And if she doesn't fall out where I think she's gonna fall out, then that gives me some food for thought. If she's right where I thought she would be, you know, and and will tell me, Davenport, you're adding one too many, you know, sticks to the pile. You gotta focus on what you got, and you're spreading yourself too thin. Then I, you know, I I feel like I'm right on course.

Kendra Davenport:

But I think it's important because, you know, as as someone I just spoke with said, leadership is lonely. You know, mentors, I think people tend to think very early on in your career, you need mentors to help you learn what you don't know, help you affirm what you know you know. But I would say that mentors are important at every stage in your career and that I still, you know, 35 years into this career of mine, look to mentors for advice, guidance, support, affirmation, constructive criticism. So I think where you go to search for a mentor, I think they're all around you. I think mentors don't necessarily have to be someone who does exactly what you do, but rather someone whose opinion you respect, who who is someone who comports themself in a way that you value and that you recognize as as a way you'd like to act and be. And they can be family members. You really just need to respect your your mentors. You don't need to, I think, align professionally with them.

Kendra Davenport:

That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get On Board with Transparent Leadership.