Episode 22: Leading with Purpose: Dr. Catherine Alicia Georges on Heart, Grit, and Compassion

Episode 22 Show Notes

Dr. Catherine Alicia Georges is a Professor and Chairperson Emerita at City University of New York–Herbert H. Lehman College. She is a longtime educator and a distinguished nursing leader.

She shares her journey from the U.S. Virgin Islands, inspired by nurse midwives in her community, and reflects on the challenges women, especially women of color, face in leadership.

Dr. Catherine Alicia Georges talks about the value of mentorship, staying true to your purpose, and leading with clarity, strength, and a deep commitment to community. Her story offers real insight for anyone looking to make a meaningful impact.

Connect with Dr. Catherine Alicia Georges on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Kendra Davenport: When you have ambitions, when you have aspirations, oftentimes, I think for women, that's viewed as a negative. Like, you are somehow you should just be thankful for where you are, enjoy your station wherever that is professionally, and not express ambition. How did you square that? Because you have steadily risen throughout your career. You've taken on more. You've become a speaker. You've become an expert. You know, to serve as you do on AARP's board is huge, Alicia. You know that.

But you speak all over the world now. How did you square that with what I'm certain was probably some pushback or some sideways glances? Because I know we still get it today.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Yeah. It was hard. It was it was hard and it was uncomfortable. But one of the things I told somebody the other day, one of the things is getting support, not just from my mentors, but from my peers who had the same aspirations and who stuck by me and who would say, hey, Alicia. You ain't no impostor. Go in that room and just tell them like it is. You know? Don't be like it. Yeah.

You know, be you. So I learned that being authentic was what kept me, you know, in check, you know, being transparent. And, really, you know, somebody said to me a couple months ago, what about your young self? What would you say about your young self? I said, I used to get angry. I used to emote. I said, but now I've learned to just have my argument and my data and my evidence already, and they can't fight that. You know? If I wanna talk about policy, here's the science to inform the policy. Here's the demographics and the data that will inform this policy. Not you gotta do it because we said we have a right to it.

Kendra Davenport: Welcome to On Board with Transparent Leadership, an Easterseals podcast. I'm Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I am joined today by doctor Catherine Alicia Georges, professor and chairman emerita of City College of New York, Herbert Lehman College. I've known Alicia now for a little more than three years. Alicia was the board chair when I started with Easterseals, so we are good friends. But for those of you who don't know her, Alicia is an educator and a practitioner and a community activist. She's a champion for women, women in nursing in in particular, and she's an authority on nursing. She speaks and is a sought after speaker. We were just discussing before I even started this podcast how much she travels.

Kendra Davenport: She has been all over the world addressing health care issues, and her professional career spans more than three decades. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast, doctor Georges. Alicia to me.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Yes. Lovely having you. Thank you for having me, Kendra. I'm always I always love interacting with you and learning from you and sharing with you. So this is this is a great opportunity.

Kendra Davenport: We're a mutual admiration society, and I really, welcome the opportunity to talk with you a little bit about leadership. You had a career. Your career started at a time when there were very few women, working. You were definitely in the minority in many ways. Can you talk a little bit about what was the impetus that got you to go into nursing and then to carry on and do so much more because you are still doing?

Catherine Alicia Georges: Yeah. Yeah. At this point in my life, you would think I would stay home and realize...

Kendra Davenport: Slow down.

Catherine Alicia Georges: But I can't. I can't. It's still my passion. Well, just to to understand my journey into this whole career is I come from Saint Thomas in The United States Virgin Islands, and my godmother was a nurse midwife. I think she delivered at my all my friends who were delivered behind the generation before me. And, one of the things that really prompted me into going into nursing, one, it was nursing or teaching. I sent them and I ended up teaching for all those years. But, you know, she the nurses in the islands were so well respected.

They were powerhouses. They ran the health department. They ran the hospital. They made the home visits. They were parts of the community, and they had they were highly respected. And because they were nurse midwives, they were excellent. They managed all the care of, women, pregnant women, and thereafter, you know, the postpartum. So I said, oh, I wanna be like her.

So I said, oh, I'm gonna be a nurse midwife. Well, I didn't, follow that course anyway, but left and went to Seton Hall, in New Jersey, college in now College of Nursing. And in there, I really developed a passion for caring for commute people in community. And I said, when I'm done with this rigorous curriculum, I am going to be a community health nurse. Because I saw that I could combine in because in my practice as a student, you could combine, you know, community. You could do maternity. You can do all across the board. So that prompted me, and I just enjoyed it.

You know? I, there have been ups and downs. It was hard for me. I went I graduated from school in the sixties, from. It was the throes of civil rights, discriminatory practices, difficult to really penetrate even some of the organizations that I applied for positions in New York. But visiting their service of New York, which was my what where I really wanted to go did hire me. And so I ended up working in The Bronx where I still am today, in The Bronx, and felt that at that time, I could do so much more. You know? You got to see people in a real, real environment. Hospitals are, you know, artificial.

You know? And so that kept me there. And then from there, being part of community, you can't help but getting involved politically, socially. You know? And so that's that really and I still am. I still remain committed. I still, just a few weeks ago, I took I went and organized all the chap with, one of the, nurses from one of the chapters organized advocacy day in Albany with the, New York's with all the chapters of the National Black Nurses. And, of course, my state senator showed up. He knew he he knew he had. He said, I wouldn't I had to come.

I had to come. And my assemblyman is the speaker of the assembly. He arranged for a room for us. The two nurses, they had, you know, and so I said, oh my god. I can continue to do this. This is what is I don't need to go to Albany, to be honest. I need to go to advocate for folks. But these nurses needed to see where they can make a impact and how they were respected and how they were treated introduced on the floor of the assembly.

So they were feeling so good about what they did. So I continue to do it.

Kendra Davenport: Valued. I mean, I think when people like you devote the kind of time you do to mentoring and nurturing the careers of younger women, I definitely think it empowers them because they feel valued. They feel seen. And I think, having a mentor, someone you can look up to, someone who's still engaged, so engaged, and so happy to be working, this late in your career, I think, really is something to look forward to and to look up to. Can you talk a little bit about whether or not there was anyone you talked to touched a little bit on it that you saw other people going into nursing. But throughout your career, was there a mentor who really influenced you or who you really relied on for guidance and advice?

Catherine Alicia Georges: Well, there was more than one. I tell folks I've had many, many, many, many mentors. Because for me, in mentoring, it's at the point in time where you are in your career trajectory, who you need to be the person that you go to. So I've had folks like the former dean at University of Michigan and before you know, and who had also been one of the first black well, the first black, woman to be the deputy director of the National Institutes of Mental Health. You know? And so she and I met her not knowing she was a nurse. I met her at a friend's wedding. And it was after she went back to Yale, and I don't know why I was reading I realized, oh my god. That's the woman.

That's Rita Duma. She's written so much. She's a she's a group person. She's a I was, like, fascinated. And I wrote to her. I said, oh my god. You are. She said, no.

I'm your friend. Anything you need, you do it. Up to the day she died, the night she died in hospice, they called me from her room because she and I became so close. Now she did holler at me times when she thought I shouldn't have done stuff and, you know, then I had another mentor -

Kendra Davenport: - who was also was transparent with you.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Yes. Yes. Who said to her, not all of us have the same opinion. You leave her alone. And that was doctor Gloria Smith, who was, like, the number two at Kellogg Foundation and who was a dean at the, school of nursing in at University of Oklahoma, who was the head of the the public health department in Michigan and was dean at Wayne State. And those women, they would say to me, they pushed you. They said, you know, be brave. Like, one of you.

Yeah. You know, going through having, trying to maneuver and navigate what was happening within nursing and trying to get promoted and so forth. There's what they are saying. You just gotta be both. You just do it.

Kendra Davenport: I will always remember. When I started at Easterseals, you were chairman chairwoman of our board. And one of the first things you said to me was, you do you, Kendra. We're here to support you. We're not here to get in your way or hamper you. And I it was, like a breath of fresh air, really. It was because I thought, wow. And you said, you know, you keep us informed, but you're driving the bus.

Mhmm. You make your decisions, and we'll support you. And when we don't support you, we'll let you know. Is that and you have. But it was so liberating for me as a leader to feel, you know, gosh. My board chair trusts me. Is that indicative of the kind of style of leadership you exemplified or, you know, clung to throughout your career? Can you talk a little bit about the kind of leader you are? Right. Because you definitely are very empowering, transparent leader.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Right. Somebody when I was being interviewed, you know, for the, to be the president-elect of AARP, one of the members, Adway, governance committee asked me, she says, so tell us what is your leadership style? And I said, eclectic. And I said, what does that mean? I said, because different times in one's career and one's work and interaction with people in organization, you may use different styles. I said, however, in being eclectic, I'm inclusive. I'm transparent. I'm authentic. I will tell you I will be respectful of you and respectful of your opinion. I do not have to agree with you, but I will bring to the table the evidence and the data that I have to support what I'm saying.

And so I believe firmly that leaders anybody who's a leader, one, you gotta have courage. That's why I love this book. I I've oh, I've I kept it for so I couldn't find it at some place, but I think somebody borrowed it. But I firmly believe that you gotta have the courage to speak out. You've got to without offending and without trying to destroy anybody.

Kendra Davenport: You do. I've watched you stand your ground, and that brings me to something I frequently talk about on this podcast because I feel I continue to feel that women are it is I think it's more difficult to be a woman in the working world because you are, you're held to different standards. And one of them is, not being viewed as aggressive when you are simply being assertive. And so I think for me, even at this juncture in my career to watch you hold your ground and stand your ground in meetings, and to your point, do so in a courteous, respectful way, but be immovable. No. I am sorry. I am correct on this point, and you stand corrected. It has also been really I think, I think it's been good.

It's been great to see someone like you do that. And I think if more women, had a role model like you, they wouldn't be so shy about sharing their opinion. And they wouldn't be so, dejected when they are called aggressive for being merely being assertive. Is this something you've seen change over time? What's your what is your viewpoint on the way women are accepted or not accepted in senior management or leadership roles? What do you think some of the pitfalls are? I mean, are those the same as they were twenty or thirty years ago?

Catherine Alicia Georges: They are and they're not. You know, early on in my leadership, you know, career, you know, when I spoke out because you were always I was always in a room with, you know, white males dominating the you know, on any board that I've been on. And the first thing they say, oh, you're just angry. You're just one of those angry women. So that was the term they used. That became unacceptable. And so you would hear a variation. They're too assertive.

You know? You're very pushy. Yeah. You wanna get ahead. So I would always say, well, you can say what you want. I am an influencer. And that's what leaders are. They're influencers. How you perceive me is your personal issue.

Because and then I would you know, like, folks will call you, hey, babe. And I said, don't you call me, babe. And they said, oh oh, and then I understand. I said, yeah. In your generation, that was acceptable. No more.

Kendra Davenport: No more.

Catherine Alicia Georges: You see, but you it's and I don't they didn't stay mad at me. But now I'm seeing where folks have again, we're getting pushback in at the in these times. We're getting pushback, and we're being called women in leadership position or aspiring to be leaders are being pushed back with you know, maybe you need to know your place. You know? And I always says, where's that? I like the seat at the top. You know? You know? Hey. That's my place. That's where I see my place. You know? And and that that that it's harder.

It's I think it's harder now with some of the younger, smart as the I've seen some brilliant young women across all races. You know? You know, and within the, what do they call them, sex millennial, the, you know, the whatever, millennial, Gen x, whatever the next generations are, they're bright. But they've been so beaten down in many instances. And so they need people who say, you got a right to say that. Say it in a respectful way. Have your data. I always talk to my god. We trust the rest of you.

Bring the data to the table. You know? That's fine. And you stand your ground. But what I'm seeing, which really makes me sad, is that so many women who've been you know, they're backing off from being supportive of some of these young bright women we have in this in this country who we need to push and push and not for us to say, well, I wanna be this. Once somebody says, would you? I said, no. No. No. But I got a person who could be on your board.

I know somebody who you could call. So and so should be should be the one who should be pushed for this. I'm done. You know? My career is but we're still so, so hesitant because we wanna, quote, continue to fit in. Mhmm. Yeah.

Kendra Davenport: You touched on something you said, you know, I wanna get ahead. And I think that's another thing that women have find challenging because when you have ambitions, when you have aspirations, oftentimes, I think for women, that's viewed as a negative. Like, you are somehow you should just be thankful for where you are, enjoy your station, wherever that is professionally, and not express ambition. How did you square that? Because you have steadily risen throughout your career. You've taken on more. You've become a speaker. You've become an expert. You know, to serve as you do on AARP's board is huge, Alicia.

You know that. But you speak all over the world now. How did you square that with what I'm certain was probably some pushback or some sideways glances? Because I know we still get it today.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Yeah. It was hard. It was it was hard and it was uncomfortable. But one of the things I told somebody the other day, one of the things is getting support, not just from my mentors, but from my peers who had the same aspirations and who stuck by me and who would say, hey, Alicia. You ain't no imposter. Go in that room and just tell them like it is. You know? Don't speak to yourself. Yeah.

You know, be you. So I learned that being authentic was what kept me, you know, in check. You know, being transparent. And, really, you know, somebody said to me a couple months ago, what about your young self? What would you say about your young self? I said, I used to get angry. I used to emote. I said, but now I've learned to just have my argument and my data and my evidence already, and they can't fight that. You know? If I wanna talk about policy, here's the science to inform the policy. Here's the demographics and the data that will inform this policy.

Not you gotta do it because we say we have a right to it. Nobody wants to hear that anymore. You need to come. You know, we did a lot of that. I I know my civil rights friend says to me I should shut up about it, but I said, but we did a lot of emoting in those days. Now we come ready with what needs. We've done the analysis.

We've got the data. Here's where we are go and we're not moving from it. We're gonna stand our ground around these issues. And so that's but it was hard. It took a it took a while. I've been in nursing now. This can be I don't mind saying it. I will have graduated sixty years ago this year from Seton Hall.

You know? And it's hard. It was hard.

Kendra Davenport: What advice would you give, male or female, to young professional today just coming into the working world? What would you tell them?

Catherine Alicia Georges: One, they need to define what their purpose is. What do they really wanna do? And they need to be learn how to really communicate well. And in learning how to communicate well, you gotta learn how to be a critical listener. You've got to learn how to listen. And don't jump the gun before saying, well, that's not what we were taught. Well, that may not what you were taught, but listen to what they're saying. You you'll see both sides and then offer a solution. Now I'm not talking about compromising.

I'm talking about win. You know? So because when people are made to compromise all the time, that makes it much more uncomfortable, and they just gonna be resistant over time. So, you know, just learning to and that you did not invent the world today. It's been around before.

Kendra Davenport: Been around for a while.

Catherine Alicia Georges: And you need to learn from some of the people who have been here. You don't have to agree, but you don't have to cut them off because you and them come from a different generation. That's when, you know, you know, my my my folks are saying, oh, these young people. You know? I said, well, listen to them too. You know? And they have a point too, and they should listen to you. So I think having learning to have that open communication with the people you're working with as you move through your profession will be valuable.

Kendra Davenport: Thank you. You know, I am asked frequently by more junior employees. What do I do? What should I do to invest in myself so that I can move to the next level in my career? And I think many of them wanna hear, you know, well, go get an MBA, get a master's degree. And I frequently say, if you wanna get another degree, then by all means. It will help you get into management, but it is not the be all end all. And I think you made a great point, Alicia, about learn. You know? Listen, learn. I tell I tell people, just read.

Kendra Davenport: Just read everything you can get your hands on. Mhmm. Is there anything you would share with someone who asked you that question? What should I do to invest in myself to ensure I can advance in my career, whatever it is? Is there some fail safe piece of advice you'd give them?

Catherine Alicia Georges: I don't know if it's fail safe, but I say to people, where do you wanna be in five years? Yeah. And then backtrack. So you wanna be, and I would say you wanna be a a a chief nurse. What is it that's needed for that role? And backtrack. If you need to get a master's or a doctorate in nursing practice or a m b, go then so be it. But you also need to know what that job involves. You know? You don't get it just because it's a title. It's hard work.

You know? And, also, one of the things that we don't help young people to look at is to do a strength analysis, You know? That you know? And to look at what their strengths are and also what they need to do to make sure they increase. You know? They may have it, but it needs to be enhanced. And I don't wanna call it weakness. I wanna call it more challenges or what they need to do to get to the next step. And then I say along the way now, you begin to talk to other people. Begin to create now a network of folks who will be giving you some advice, not just a person, but go talk to folks who are in those roles. Go attend those meetings or those conferences where these folks are in and get a sense of whether or not that's really what you want. You know, people say, I wanna be a director.

Well, they think because it's gonna pay more money and they're gonna have power, but they don't really understand what the position is. You know? And they really need to be to become more self aware, you know, and really I firmly believe in in in in self assessment. You know? Not just awareness, but assessing and really take and then being very, very intentional about what you're doing. You must take to get where you need to be.

Kendra Davenport: Yes. Yes. Transparency, you know, is part of this whole podcast, and I think you know how I feel. I think you can't be transparent enough in business, and I think it is a little bit of a double edged sword. It can make things challenging from time to time because once you commit, you're committed. That means everything is out there for critique, for observation, for evaluation. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think of you as being someone who is very transparent in all things. You call it like it is.

You tell people exactly how you feel. Is there an instance where that was really challenging for you that you can think of in business or one you reverse? One where you think if I wasn't transparent, this wouldn't have turned out as well as it did.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Right. And there's a couple in incidences. You know? Some people don't like to hear the truth. And so you know? Because it makes them uncomfortable. So I firmly believe believe in being transparent. Now being transparent has then put me in the hot seat because I then had to go ahead and and do the things I needed to do to assure that the outcomes were positive. That meant that you have to reach out, but because of your transparency, you gotta reach out to people who you may not have wanted to in the past, but you have to learn how to work with all these various, you know, folks of opinions and thinking. But in the long run, by being transparent, I took the licks for some things, but the outcomes were exactly what needed to be.

Because at the end, we were stronger than we were when we begun. And one of the big issues was I was very transparent about what I thought was unfairness years ago, and I went to, my the guy who one of my political people. I had and I was very clear with him. He and I, to this day, are good friends because I was clear with him, and I said, you need to now learn how to be transparent with me. And if you knew that there were other reasons, you shoulda shared it with us. You know? So I I it took a while for us to work out relationships, but it ended up we ended up with a stronger department. We got money. We got movement.

And he and I became you know, over the years, we really became good good colleagues and now friends. Mhmm.

Kendra Davenport: Good friends. I think you and I have talked a little bit about this at other times. I am someone who believes, and I know there are there's a whole other school of thought, but I really believe because you devote so much time of your life, so much of yourself to work that if you're not making friends along the way, if you're not really enjoying the people with whom you work, then you need to move on. Mhmm. And I look back, and it's really gratifying to hear you say, I'm really good friends with this gentleman that, you know, we locked horns from time to time. But that's that's a friendship built over years. Is that a theme? And do you subscribe to the same mentality that I do that work and your personal life can be intermingled, or do you feel there should be separation between church and state? How do you feel?

Catherine Alicia Georges: Think it can be separating. You know, I think you you you've got some fences you have to keep up. Mhmm. You know? But there should be no reason. I'm who I am, and that's the way I wanna be at work. You know? So my personality doesn't change because I'm the chair of the department or I was president of AARP.

Kendra Davenport: You know? I'm still at least exhausting to be any other way. Yes. And yet I know people who are very rigid about my personal life does not enter in. I don't discuss my family. I don't discuss my friends. I at work, I'm work, and I think, oh my gosh. That would be almost impossible for me.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Right. But not only that. Think of them when you see their leadership and see what happens around their staff and see what happens. You know? I one of the people I admire so greatly is the immediate, that she's no longer the executive director, Joanne Jenkins, you know, who was the, CEO of AARP. And tough leader, but so open, so inclusive. I mean, it was like, you know, people were like, oh my morning when she decided it was time to move on. You know, in her life, she would but it was because she was personable, but she also stuck to what the mission, the goals, and getting the outcomes that were needed. And that's you know? And she believed in disruption as she called it, but, you know, it wasn't a bad disruption, but, you know, the kinds of things I needed.

And that was her personality. Yep. And I know and I maybe because she and I share the same sign, you know, we kinda, you know, they said that I don't know that I believe all that. But there's something that we're always honest because now she didn't tell you all her personal business, but she never denied, you know, her joy in having a grandson, a baby, a new baby, her joy in, you know, other people doing things, her joy in seeing other people within her her her enterprise getting awards. You know? Those are the things that people need because those leaders who are then so, I think, so cold and so siloed, their staff is not happy. You can see it in because if they set a tone I always said the tone at the top is what makes a difference.

Kendra Davenport: I think I think there's truth to that because I think people, regardless of where they are, what level they're at in a business or in a nonprofit, they need to see that everyone's human. And I think the more human your leader is, and I don't mean, you know, bringing all your dirty laundry in or, you know, but I think they need to see when you have an off day or when you have something in your personal life that overshadows a death in the family, whatever, that you're human and that you'll get through it and that, you know, you appreciate their grace and patience. But, I think that gives them, license to experience normal emotions too and not worry about being, you know, maligned or sidelined because they are being human. So I love that.

And when you think about it now, is there some challenge at work that you still are perplexed by, or have you got it all sussed out at this point?

Catherine Alicia Georges: I you know, I think over the many years, I, you know, I've learned techniques and strategies so that I don't get all stressed out about things. One is, you know, I mean, I love to embrace young people, but I just I've learned how not to even take them on when they're renting and raving and, you know, all the things they know and, you know, and they you know, and this is how it is. And then, you know, I just listen to them and, you know, I don't get upset anymore because they going to see it ain't quite. And that happened recently in an encounter with a dean at, where I'm doing some work now. And I just let her it carry on and, you know, done. You should have done this. I know that. And I just you know? Okay.

Fine. First thing I said, would you like to take over the project? That's all. Hey. Stop talking, hun. You know? And then all of a sudden, the back you know? I'm she was not going to threaten me. Not threaten or make me upset. I just said, hey. You know, at this stage in my life, I've been there, done this a hundred more times than you will ever do in, you know, at this stage in your development.

And so now it's a whole different I don't see her and speak to her. But all of a sudden, the you could stay the whole everything's changed. The way you know, if I write something, it's a oh, yes. I you should do this immediately. Yes. Yes. You know? I mean, you don't get strict. I said, you know what? They got their problems too because I'm not that's not my full time job.

I'm not responsible for all that stuff. You know? So I don't have to worry about it. But there are borders and fences that I will not let you cross. You know? But I'm not gonna get all blown away by it anymore. You know? It's and it is a function. It's a function of longevity in these kinds of systems, you know, that, that that help you to cope.

Kendra Davenport: Your stamina has always been something I've admired, and, you know, I think we're similar in that respect. We like a lot going on. We like to have things planned and advanced. Mhmm. What do you do to keep going, though? Is there something you do that helps keep you healthy mentally, physically, able to continue to work? Is there something you do for yourself?

Catherine Alicia Georges: I read a lot. Junkie books, very knowledgeable books. I call them air my aunt call them airport books. You know? But they're on my nook. You know? So I read. You know? There are no plots. There's not you don't have to analyze no data. And it just relaxes you.

And the other thing is, I have massages done every couple weeks. I have facials done every couple weeks. You take care of you. Every couple weeks. My feet, my hair. You know? You know, that's the kind of thing. Oh, I would just go on go downtown and just go to a movie. You know? Not a movie.

I don't like the smelly. Go to a play. Go down Broadway. I'm gonna go down this weekend if I can get a ticket. It's hard to get tickets this weekend. But, you know, and just call somebody up and we'll go out and have lunch. My best friend, she's in Florida now, so we haven't seen each other for a couple, you know, months. But we'll call each other, and we just laugh and talk.

You know, we just and that you know? And even now, we talk almost every night, and we've been friends since we were 17 and in college.

Kendra Davenport: Friends are good for the soul. Friends that have lasted that long are like family, I think.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Kendra Davenport: Well, I love talking to you. I could talk to you all day, and I love to end these episodes with, what we call an ask me anything segment, so stick around for that. But before I let you go, doctor George, is I'd love to ask you one final question. And anyone who knows me as you just, you know, you just created the perfect tee up for this. I read. I'm a voracious reader. I read constantly. I read the newspaper more than I read anything right now, and I read a couple newspapers a day usually.

But, I love books. Is there a book you're currently reading? Can be anything. Can be about leadership. Can be about anything. Even one of the junk books on your nook that you would recommend.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Well, the and I can't even remember the name, to be honest with you, it, but because it's one of my Nook books. But one that really dealt with about family and the criticality of family relationships. And, you know, why that reverberated with me is because so much of what's going on about family caregiving, you know, and and and and and burdens that families have. And in this story, these, they didn't see themselves as being burdened by caring for grandparents and other extended family member. They came together as a network. And I as when I think back of this book that I still that I can't find, I think somebody has it, you know, is is, what's her name? Brene Brown's book, Dare to Lead.

And, you know, and when I thought of that, though, that family and how they were all work I mean, they had the the, you know, dispute, but they had courage. They trusted each other. And it's a trustworthiness that I saw in these two in when I look at what at and remember, Brown's stuff, it's about courage and being trustworthy and integrity. And that's what that family had. It, the it ended the story ended where they were caring for an a grandparent. And so I don't you know? I mean, you could imagine. I mean, I'm sure it was fiction. It was fiction.

And you could imagine they may have had, you know, some other iterations over time of what happened with family. But that to me is important, and it was, and I still like Brown's stuff. I mean, you read all COVID, Qatar, you know, all these other things. But Brown and that Brown's book came out in I think it was 2018 or 2019, and that continues to be something that I hold on to.

Kendra Davenport: I like Brene Brown too. I like Simon Sinek as well. I read a lot of his stuff.

Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your candor. It's always a pleasure. And I know you like having lunch, and we are overdue for lunch. So the next time I'm in Manhattan, we'll do lunch.

Catherine Alicia Georges: Please do. Please give me a call. Take care. And I'll see you in May. I'll be at the, the reception on board meeting. I have some earlier that week. So, but I'll be there. So you look forward to it.

Kendra Davenport: Thank you, Dr. Georges. Today's ask me anything question is what strategies do I employ to remain open to different viewpoints when I'm under pressure? And the short answer is I'm not great at this. This is something I struggle with. I tend to I tend to make gut decisions, decisions that are based on what I feel initially. And I'll be honest, I rarely change. I rarely change. I'm trying as I as I become more mature to be more open to different and dissenting opinions, but it is a struggle. And I think we all have to be honest about what we're good at and what we're not and identify those things we struggle with and really work to be better at them. Fortunately, I am surrounded by very, very thoughtful people who will say to me, woah, woah, woah, wait, Kendra, before you decide, before you jump in, hear me out.

And listening is a big part of it. Right? I'm not a great listener at times. I I love listening, but in the heat of the moment when I'm under pressure, am I a good listener? Not always. And I think my mind is usually going a mile a minute, and I'm already on step c, d, e. I'm not really paying enough attention at times to a, b, or c. So what do I do? I try to step back. I try to step back. If you're fortunate as I am, and you have people working alongside you whose opinions and viewpoints you really have confidence and faith in, then it's not such a difficult you know, I guess, it's not such a difficult challenge to remain open to different views.

And I do think it's important that people kick the tires on thought processes, on opportunities, or on challenges. And I would say I'm better at convening a group to talk about or ideate, collaborate about an idea if I'm under pressure to come up with a decision. That's helpful to me. When everybody's brought into the room and the whole purpose of the discussion is to identify every look at the look at the challenge or the opportunity from every angle. But when I'm forced to make a decision and I'm under pressure and I've got people, you know, other voices in my head or people chiming in or hear me out on this, I would say I'm that's something I struggle with because I often feel as the leader, it's my responsibility. And yet, again, I would say I'm getting better at seeking out the advice of people who I really respect and whose position or conditions or, that they put on decision making or or, their their engagement, you know, seek that out, get their opinion. And I often find it's it's helpful even if you're under pressure to go to somebody who has no skin in the game, who has no, nothing to win or lose by sharing their opinion, and whose opinion is then totally objective. So maybe it's not totally objective if they know you and they're a friend or a colleague, but you get my drift.

If they don't have a stake in whatever decision you're making, they can offer you some salient advice. Not my strongest suit, but I read something, today that really I thought encapsulated who I am as a decision maker, as a leader. And I think, let me see if I can pull it up. I think it has a lot to do with the quality of the decisions you make, so I'll just read it. A pattern I've noticed in people who make things happen is speed. They don't overthink. They don't overplan or wait for the perfect moment. They move.

They go from idea to action in the time it takes most to write the first draft of their plan. While others are debating, researching, or hesitating, they're already learning, adjusting, and making progress. Success doesn't go to the person who had the best idea. It goes to the one who actually did something about it. That's from Tooker Solomon, and I love his stuff. But there's some truth to that. And while I'm, you know, beating myself up about not always being good about listening to dissenting opinions, I will say, if someone's opinion is going to prevent me from acting, I am usually less apt to take it really seriously because I'm a person of action. And I think leaders have to decide, You know? If you're gonna build consensus on every decision you make so that you don't take some arrows now and then from people who dissent with you, that's gonna make you one kind of leader.

Or if you're going to make the best possible decision with input from as many parties as you can. But with that speed, then you're gonna get stuff done, and I think you'll be judged on your achievements rather than on who are you did or didn't have in the room when you made the decision. Easterseals empowers people with disabilities and their families to be full participants in their communities and within society. Easterseals is where everyone can feel welcomed and people know that they aren't judged, but treated with the dignity that they deserve. Each day, we provide life changing services nationwide and advocate for policies that improve quality of life. From employment to housing services, to job training, childcare, and respite care, adult day programs, and so much more. Easterseals is making a profound impact in thousands of communities every day. You can learn more by visiting Easterseals.com.

That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with Transparent Leadership.