Episode 18: Creating a Culture of Generosity: Kerry Alys Robinson’s Vision for Post-COVID Giving

Episode 18 Show Notes

“I’d rather you invest massively in what makes your heart sing than give an obligatory gift to Catholic Charities.”

Kerry Alys Robinson, President and CEO of Catholic Charities USA, discusses the importance of staying grounded amid a busy schedule and highlights the value of the "ministry of presence."

She addresses challenges faced by Catholic organizations, particularly the need to engage younger generations in philanthropy, and the paradox of declining individual giving despite rising global wealth. Kerry advocates for collaboration among nonprofits to enhance the impact and shares her favorite reads and the positive effects of generosity on mental wellness.

Learn Kerry’s transition to her leadership role, her admiration for her colleagues, and how her faith influences her leadership style.

Links:

• Learn more about Kerry Alys Robinson and Catholic Charities.
• Connect with Kendra Davenport.

Transcript

Kerry Alys Robinson:

I probably draw on my faith unconsciously all of the time but I try to be conscious about it too. And this this example comes to mind at this moment. I had a friend, who passed away about 6 years ago. He was a Catholic priest, Father Bob Boulogne, and he used to say, Integrity is having one story. And I've been so struck by that and what how I and how I live that, insight is I am the same way with my colleagues here at Catholic Charities USA as I am with my extended family, with my neighbors, with my community of faith, with bishops and cardinals, with the clients we serve. Like, integrity is having one story.

Kendra Davenport:

Welcome to onboard with Transparent Leadership in Easterseals podcast. I'm Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I am joined today by Kerry Alys Robinson, who happens to be president and CEO of Catholic Charities USA. Kerry is a friend. I've known her for quite some time, and I am thrilled to talk about her and with her today. I'd like to give you a little bit of background. Kerry joined, Catholic Charities as its CEO, Catholic Charities USA, as its CEO about a year and a month ago. And prior to that, Kerry served as, Leadership Roundtable's first founding executive director where I met her, then as its global ambassador and executive partner, and currently, she's a member of their board of directors. Kerry is also a member of the Raskob Foundation For Catholic Charities and FADICA, foundations and donors interested in Catholic activities.

She has been a trustee of more than 25 national and international foundations and nonprofits, and she has served as the executive director of ope of the Opus Prize Foundation, which confers an annual $1,000,000 humanitarian award recognizing people of faith dedicated to the alleviation of human suffering. Kerry is the prize winning author of Imagining Abundance, a book I love, fundraising, philanthropy, and a spiritual call to service. She is the founding editor of the Catholic Funding Guide and has contributed chapters to 5 books, including a pope Francis Lexicon. She has been an adviser to grant making foundations, charitable nonprofits, and family philanthropy since 1990. Kerry has also served as development director for Saint Thomas More Catholic Chaplain Center at Yale University and led a $75,000,000 fundraising drive to expand and endow the chapel's intellectual and spiritual ministry and to construct a Catholic student center designed by Caesar cesar Pelli on Yale's campus. Kerry is a frequent writer and speaker on philanthropy, generosity, service, and faith. She's a graduate of Georgetown, Hoya, and Yale and the recipient of 10 honorary doctorates. She and her husband, doctor Michael Capello, professor of public health and infectious diseases at Yale University, are parents to 2 very achieved and accomplished children, Christopher and Sophie.

Kerry, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for making time for this. And I have been really eager to talk with you about all things leadership, and intertwining leadership with our faith values, which you and I share and have a lot in common, about. But I'd love you to start by telling our listeners a little bit about yourself and how you came to serve in the role you're currently in because you are you are CEO of Catholic Charities USA, which is a massive, massive nonprofit that does so much good and is so long standing. I've known of Catholic Charities my entire life, a product like you of Catholic education, a Catholic family, Catholic upbringing. So talk to us about what how your life brought you here and how you find yourself in the current role you're in, if you would.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Kendra, it is so good to be with you on your fabulous podcast. Thank you for having me. So good to see you again. I am as surprised as anyone to find myself in the role of president and CEO of Catholic Charities USA. I have long admired it, and it really stems to my my earliest memories as a child. A very formative part of my background is being part of a large family that now has an 80 year history of serving the Catholic church at the local diocesan, national, and international level through the instrument of a private family foundation. What that means is 80 years ago, my great grandparents, John and Helena Raskob, pooled their resources, and they established the foundation with two intentions. They wanted all of their resources to be used exclusively to support the Catholic church in its full breadth of humanitarian and, religious mission, and they wanted their children and descendants to be invited as teenagers to serve as volunteers in the work of the foundation.

So from the youngest age, I remember being brought up in this family and exposed to the church at its very best, and that was always through the lens of women and men, ordained religious and lay, who were living out their faith in a very concrete and immediate way. It was radically compelling to me because I saw them standing at the vanguard of human suffering and refusing to walk away. Rather, they stayed, and their their faith compelled them to alleviate that human suffering, to, ask the question, the justice questions, why is there hunger for children in a country that is so plentiful? Why do bad things happen to good people? And so they confronted head on this human suffering and injustice in every corner of the globe. And yet while they were doing that, I observed that there was this palpable sense of joy about them. They were among the freest and and most joyful people. And I just remember thinking as a child, I want to be like them. They they seem to have figured out the secret of life, and it was all tied to to service and faith and beholding the dignity of the human person. And they were kind of unapologetic about their their, work in the world.

So I I re really remember as a child wanting to be like them, and then at the same time thinking, I will never be that selfless, that holy. Like, I I can't do that work. But I in in all humility, I I used to pray that God would let me have some behind the scenes role that with my life, I could make a contribution to their lives, help equip them to be these moral heroes that they clearly were and are. And all these years later, to be to be called to this role of president and CEO of Catholic Charities USA feels distinctly like an answer to that prayer. And it's just been an absolute blessing of a lifetime to work with so many talented, dedicated, selfless, merciful people who are so good at what they do, both at the national office and in every corner of the United States and its five territories.

Kendra Davenport:

You know, I remember I think I talked to a mutual friend of ours, Kim, Smolik, who told me you were competing for that role. And I remember saying out loud, I can't think of a better person to lead Catholic Charities for all of the the reasons you just described. For our listeners, though, can you talk a little bit about Catholic Charities, the work Catholic Charities does? As I said at the top of this this podcast, I am intimately familiar with Catholic Charities and have been all my life. But the role Catholic Charities plays in so many areas, I think, has expanded to to really fill the need and the and the gaps. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

So Catholic Charities USA is 114 years old, and it was created in response to the suffering predominantly of of poor people living in the United States and wanting to be a partner to government in caring for people who found themselves in very dire straits, whether that was from economic hardship or the calamities of of life that can befall any one of us. Today, we are in 168 agencies throughout all 50 states and 5 US territories. Our clients can experience virtually anything that you can imagine that might befall a person. It it is veterans who are struggling with PTSD or looking to find an another avenue to earn income. It is people who are struggling with addiction and need counseling and and addiction services. It is people who have been chronically unhoused looking for safe shelter. It's people materially poor, perhaps living out of their car with their families. We're also the Catholic church's domestic relief arm.

So right now, as we are speaking, we are in between the devastating hurricane Helene and bracing ourselves for hurricane Milton. We train Catholic Charity staff all over the country in disaster response and relief. And the insight there is that we, for 114 years, have been helping individuals with their disasters, their crises, their their human suffering. Why shouldn't we also apply this at the communal level? And, extremely proud of our team. It it's they are working round the clock now distributing is the team, Kerry?

Kendra Davenport:

How large is the team you manage?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

So at the national office, my colleagues here in Alexandria, Virginia number 67. So there are 67 of us, and there are in the 168 agencies across the country, there are 45,000 full time employees and 215,000 volunteers every year. Incredible.

Kendra Davenport:

Incredible. What since you started, if you can tell us and share with us, has been the most surprising thing about Catholic Charities to you?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

I think it is how perfect it feels to be appointed at this moment in time. I, you know, I didn't really seek this out to begin with, and I had to be persuaded to to meet with with the search committee. I was very happy doing what I was doing, living where I was living. This all seemed rather daunting and kind of why upset a perfectly happy life. But what I'm really astonished by is how right it feels, how how much of an answer to a vocational desire it really has been, and and how how much I admire my my colleagues, the the CEOs of the local Catholic agencies across the country, the volunteers, the clients served, my role, as as ambassador and advocate and champion. I just really am surprised by how much it feels like I have come home.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I love that because I I feel similarly about the role I'm in, and I know I've shared that with you. I feel and I have felt since I came to Easterseals that my entire career led me to this position. I love it for for exactly the reasons you just ticked off. And I think that's a that's an incredible blessing to you know, and a privilege, really. And I I feel to serve in these roles is as much a privilege and and really I feel and I'm certain you do too. I don't wanna put merge in your mouth, but I feel I get so much more than I give, and I think that's what you just described. But that being said, it is a huge commitment, and it did change your life.

And I think you're doing what I am doing, which is commuting from your yours your home to Virginia. Talk a little bit about that and the transition.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Exactly. Kindred, we are such kindred spirits.

Kendra Davenport:

We have been for a long time, I think, Kerry.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Yes. But so and I'm so grateful for you and your example. It really like, truly, it gives me courage and confidence and stamina and inspiration to to carry on. But, yes, my husband and I live in Connecticut. He is an infectious disease doctor and global epidemiologist and the chair of a department at Yale School of Public Health. He's very good at what he does. He loves his career. He's also a person who is serving a a kind of a larger good, and he's not in a position to move.

But the headquarters for Catholic Charities USA is just outside of Washington DC and Alexandria, Virginia. Now my board has made it incredibly, easy for me to make this weekly commute. There is a an apartment that is right across the street from our from our headquarters here. So I can work when I'm here, I can work until, you know, late hours at night, and my commute is only 45 seconds, by foot. Easy. Yes. Yes. And Easier.

Of course, a big challenge, especially in year 1, was visiting the local agencies and really getting out intentionally into the field to listen and learn as much as I possibly could. And that has been absolutely a privilege. Also, a lot of of travel and, not a lot of sleep. But in a curious way, it has been so invigorating from the very beginning. And I I you alluded to this, but I don't think we we often stop when we're counting our blessings and calling to mind what we are grateful for. Rarely do we say that I am grateful for the blessing of meaningful work, and that's really what you and I and our colleagues get to do every day.

Kendra Davenport:

It's so true, and so many things come to mind. I I don't know which question to ask you next, but I will say I have the the honor and the privilege as you and I discussed before we started recording of meeting with, Claire Babineau Fontenot, who is the president and CEO of Feeding America. And I'm always, I don't know. It's like a it's like a sorority of sorts when you you recognize someone in a leadership position such as yours or Claire's or Suzanne McCormick, who is, you know, c e president and CEO of the Y US. And you realize so many of us share a common bond, and that is our Catholic faith, which for many people is is different and unique. I understand that. But it is a commonality. And I think for many years early in my career, it was something I didn't really discuss.

You didn't didn't influence your professional career. It was you kept it in, you know, behind the scenes, and yet I really feel my Catholic faith is so integral to my work, to why I've stayed in nonprofit for 36 years and and resisted, you know, the temptation at times when I had 3 in college to go to the private sector. But can you talk you you've talked to me a lot about how your faith led you to where you are. Do you draw on your faith in terms of your leadership? Are there are are there tenants of your faith that you incorporate in your daily leadership that might not be recognizable to everyone, but maybe a a fellow a fellow Catholic like myself might see? Can you speak to that a little bit?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

A beautiful question, and I I probably draw on my faith unconsciously all of the time. But I try to be conscious about it too. And this this example comes to mind at this moment. I had a friend, who passed away about 6 years ago. He was a Catholic priest, father Bob Boulogne, and he used to say, integrity is having one story. And I've been so struck by that. And what how I in how I live that, insight is I am the same way with my colleagues here at Catholic Charities USA as I am with my extended family, with my neighbors, with my community of faith, with bishops and cardinals, with the clients we serve. Like, integrity is having one story.

Now we have different relationships, of course. I'm mindful of that, but this innate desire to live authentically and transparently and, in in a way that is consonant. So what I do and how I behave at work is how I am called to behave as a person of faith. You know? I don't I don't compartmentalize and segment. I'm not a person a different person to to one constituency versus another. And I think that, leads to some intentional, living out of my values that

Kendra Davenport:

In one story. Yes. In one story. I love that example. Leadership. Walking into what you what you undoubtedly walked into, an organization not dissimilar in many ways to Easterseals in that more than a 100 years old. I remember very vividly when I first started this role almost 3 years ago, counting to myself how many times I would hear, we've done that or that's been done or that's been tried. When you go into an organization as old as both of ours are, I think that is that's part and parcel. Right? So what is new? What newness, new concept, new ideas do you sort of plant a stake in as as Catholic Charities US' new CEO that you own, Kerry, or or have you not gotten to that yet?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Well, first of all, I am incredibly blessed by my predecessor. My predecessor is sister Donna Markham. She was at the helm here for almost 10 years. She did an extraordinary job and really teed me up beautifully. She hired extraordinarily smart, capable, hardworking people. She initiated a strategic plan. She just is I can't I can't speak highly enough of her. So already, I had the advantage of being handed an incredibly well run organization.

But I was thinking about you in preparation for for this conversation, Kendra, because I I remembered that you and I both have a background in our early part of our career that involved philanthropy and fundraising. And I think what made us both the fundraisers we were and the successful fundraisers we were is our desire to do things differently, to see things differently, to to, take risks, you know, to try to really have a a larger impact. And I think we're both bringing that innate tendency and desire to our roles as CEOs now. I would say that because it's been 9 years or so, 8 years since the last strategic plan at Catholic Charities USA, of course, we are embarking on a new one. The the time is is right, and that allows us to dream and to listen in ways that are really invigorating and inspiring. So I'm certainly working very strongly in these these early days on, establishing a really joyful culture. I think we all have come through COVID and never gave ourselves time or permission to actually mourn what we all experienced. We just we're eager to get back into real life again, but that comes at a cost.

And so I am really trying to be intentional about bringing the full staff together, fostering collaboration across departments and creativity. We've named 8 values that we are holding ourselves accountable to. And as we model that at the national office, we are trying to impart that across the the whole infrastructure of Catholic Charities.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I when I think of Catholic Charities, I think in terms of challenges, what might be challenging is what and you and I have discussed this before, what might be challenging, and maybe I'm wrong. So I'm I'm interested to hear you talk about what the challenges you're you're faced with right now are. But as I, as I serve on a on a board I I serve on the board of my, my alma mater, Chestnut Hill College, Sisters of Saint Joseph. When I attended 1984 to 1988, it was a women's Catholic college. It's now coed. And at the time I went, it was a college for middle to upper middle class families, largely from 2 groups, Catholic Italians, Catholic Irish, to send their daughters and and be assured that they were gonna be safe and well educated. It's changed very dramatically, and now we serve a much lower income population that is much more diverse.

One of the struggles, I think, colleges like Chestnut Hill and many other smaller Catholic colleges, Catholic institutions writ large are facing is the is the aging out of Catholic donors and the crisis in the Catholic faith that has really eroded some of the philanthropic largesse that that our parents and their parents really witnessed in the Catholic church. And I'm curious as a fundraiser at heart, and you know me well, has that impacted Catholic Charities' ability to raise money as you see it? Or is the is the group, the the network you're going to for support much broader than the Catholic church as I assume it might be?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Certainly, our network of donors is much, much broader than the Catholic church and Catholic donors, and we are inviting all people of goodwill to invest in this life giving work and humanitarian aid. And just, I mean, just the example of of hurricane Helene and the outpouring of support, we're we're very fortunate that 100% of every dollar we raise for a disaster is immediately deployed to the local agency to help the people who are, suffering. But I would say that you're raising something that is extremely important, I think, for anyone who cares about the Catholic church or for the nonprofit sector writ large. You, of course, are aware of this wonderful national conversation which has been initiated by the Generosity Commission. I served as cochair of the Faith in Giving Task Force for the generosity commission. And, really, it was started several years ago with the observation that the data was showing a radical growing decline in number of donors, number of individual gifts, and even more alarming, number of volunteers in America. And our task force as for our piece of this, looked at the corresponding trends of disaffiliation from organized religion and noted that these are are paired. You know, we can see this this, correlation.

So I think it really it behooves all of us to have this conversation to ask how are we engaging young adults actively meeting them where they are, and inviting them into this work, not just as donors, but as volunteers, as leaders, as emerging leaders? It's really that does keep me up at night for all of the reasons.

Kendra Davenport:

Me as well. But I think you that leads us to a really incredible intersection where I I think, yes, in some ways, giving has declined. Individual giving across the board has declined, and yet we are living in a period of epic wealth that that the world has never seen before. 100 of billionaires in this in this city of Manhattan alone, and the the capability of a single foundation to stand up through massive grants, initiatives that will benefit literally 100 of 1,000, if not millions of people. And and, inspired by this question today by Melinda French Gates coming out today with, an opportune a $250,000,000 opportunity for nonprofits to apply to, her foundation at Pivotal, that will help, improve women's health, something that I feel is is grossly underfunded. But can you speak a little bit to that? Because I think engaging or really galvanizing the wealth that is available speaks a little bit to what you're saying. How do we reach out? How do we expand the pool? How do we open the circle to make everybody welcome in this process of giving? And how are you going about doing that? Because I I loved the way you stated Catholic Charities. Yes.

Founded in Catholic principles by the Catholic church, but really open to everyone to support. And and you really know no limits in terms of who you support and help. So can you speak to that a little bit? How do you do that? How do you inspire people to want to support your work?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

I first of all, I absolutely applaud the the major foundations and individual donors who are capable of making such an impactful investment in the areas that they are knowledgeable about and passionate about, and all of that should be celebrated. What I tend to worry about is the correlation between individual generosity and community or civic engagement or or higher degrees of of mental health. I I don't think it's an accident that while we're talking about this decline in volunteering and this decline in in donations and individual donors, we are also seeing the surgeon general put out a report naming that we have an epidemic of isolation and loneliness in the United States. And I just believe that we are hardwired for generosity, that we are all called to be generous and called to be catalysts to inspire generosity in others. So for you and for me in the roles that we are in now, we almost have a moral obligation to make it invitational to people of any means to contribute something so that they can be swept up in this sense of civic pride. And, you know, I think it will expose the lie that we are forever divided as a nation too. You see when a a hurricane is happening, there are people rushing to be of help. They're not stopping to ask, wait.

Are these Democrats or Republicans? So there's something really good for the soul and for the community caught up in generosity, and I think it's our task to make it easier and very, very welcoming for people to give something.

Kendra Davenport:

I think you hit the nail on the head, and and it's something I believe so strongly in because I think Americans are, by nature, incredibly generous giving people. And we've led the world in terms of what what we've contributed. We still do even though our our giving you know, the totals have declined or the the total number of individuals giving. But you also touched on something that I think is I'd love to get your opinion on because I've I've been in nonprofit now exclusively for 36 years. And one thing that that used to stymie me was that, we didn't collaborate more, that the competition for these dollars was so fierce, was so intense that we tended to, rope off, if you will, quadrant off our work and not engage, intentionally work against engaging similar nonprofits, doing similar work, or nonprofits that might have a nexus with our own. I totally have eschewed that line of thinking and, you know, have ulterior motives and even having you on today because, Kerry, you and I will work together. We will bring Easterseals and and Catholic Charities together, and I'm certain we've already our organizations have already partnered and worked. And I think if I went out as I often do to to our affiliates and asked, I'd get a resounding course. We work we already work with them, Kendra. We do that already, but we'll do more of it. Can you speak a little bit about your thoughts on that on collaboration of whether it's for profit, nonprofit? How do you feel?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Well, so this is emerging as one of the primary insights in our strategic planning, listening sessions, and interviews. A clarion call for greater collaboration with like minded organizations and unusual, candidates for collaboration. I mean, we are all in this together, and that that's how I've always rolled. It's part of my commitment to being a catalyst to inspire generosity in others. I mean, honestly, Kendra, if if I were coming to you today asking you to invest in Catholic Charities, I could make all of of the rationale and be very compelling. But if it became clear in the conversation that your primary passion was providing quality education to children below the poverty line and breaking the cycle of poverty through education, I would do everything possible to steer you in that direction because your fulfillment as a generous person matters to the whole. And I would rather you invest massively in what makes your heart sing, then give an obligatory gift to Catholic Charities because you're my friend or, you know, you're persuaded by it. And I think if we started to think more like that holistically together, that there is there is so much human need out there.

We all have something to give and to contribute. Let's let's be each other's champion. I think the world would be a lot better off.

Kendra Davenport:

Couldn't agree more. We have talked broadly and organizationally. I'd love to just ask you a couple questions about yourself personally. So juggling what I know you're juggling and the travel you've alluded to and the commute the weekly commute you're doing to to Arlington from Connecticut. What is one thing you do to stay buoyant beyond your faith? Because I know you rely like I do on your faith for buoyancy and for fulfillment. But what what is one thing that you do to keep yourself steady and grounded?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

That's such a good question. I, so I have 2 best friends, both of whom died and died young. 1 was, Mary Ann Wassell, fabulously beautiful, vivacious woman, and one was father Bob Baloghne. And I literally hear them say to me when I am getting ready for a trip or I am being invited to a reception or I have to take the podium to address an audience of several 100 people, I hear them say to me as kind of part of the community of saints, remember to enjoy it. And I'm telling you, Kendra, if I if I am showing up that day kind of exhausted or nervous or like, oh, gosh. One more thing. That intervention from my friends changes the whole dynamic. And I've long had a maxim that it is better to do than not do, and that showing up is part of a ministry of presence.

And I am never disappointed. I am never ever disappointed by agreeing to to take that trip or to speak to that audience or to come to that reception, because I'm kind of my eyes are open for goodness and and for kindred spirits and for examples that ennoble us.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I love that. We like to end all of our episodes with an ask me anything segment, so stick around for that. But before we do, I have one more final question for you, Kerry, and that is, it centers on on something I do constantly. I was doing it late last night because I couldn't sleep. I read I'm a I'm a voracious reader. I read all kinds of things. Is there something you're reading right now that that inspires you or or which maybe, you know, might even be fiction that you're just enjoying that you care to share with our listeners?

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Well, I am also a voracious reader, and I I I have realized when I am overdoing it with work, it the sign for me is that I haven't I'm not in actively in in the process of reading something. And that's always, like, a, wait. Slow down, Kerry. Same. Same. It's amazing. Right? So, I will say one book that is top of mind. I read it a long time ago, but I revisited it recently because I, had the chance to talk to the author.

He's a friend of mine. It is Heroic Leadership by Chris Lowney, a wonderful, wonderful book. Kendra, you are...

Kendra Davenport:

Write it down.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

You are. You embody heroic leadership. It's faith based. Seriously, you will love it. So highly recommend that, and and your listeners will appreciate that book too.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Very value based.

Kendra Davenport:

I will look it up. I am in the middle of 2 books right now, one of which I can't even remember the name of. That's how, you know, that's how awake I was last year.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Sound. The other of which is 5 presidents, and it's written by a former secret say service agent who was, who served 5 different presidents, obviously, starting with Dwight Eisenhower. And, it's just been fascinating because he he writes from a very human point of view. The other thing I've I've been really enjoying is Scott Galloway's books. He wrote Adrift and, The Algebra of Happiness, I think. Just a super, super author. Fascinating. I have so enjoyed this and would love to talk again soon. You and I, I know, are destined to meet for lunch soon.

Kendra Davenport:

We're trying to work that out, and I look forward to that. I am so grateful for the time you gave us today, Kerry, because I know I know personally how busy you are. This has been such a pleasure. Tell our listeners where they can go to learn more about Catholic Charities.

Kerry Alys Robinson:

Sure. Our website, Catholic Charities USA, is a beautiful source for all kinds of information. It will also direct you to your own local Catholic Charities agency where you can contribute and you can volunteer and you can support them in other ways. Thank you for asking, and thank you for having me on this beautiful podcast, Kendra.

Kendra Davenport:

So my ask me anything question today is what strategies have you found most effective for leaders to build trust and foster open communication within their teams? It's a great question, and it's not always easy. I think it is not a one and done kind of thing. I think inspiring trust and is is imperative to fostering open communication. People aren't gonna tell you what they're really thinking unless they feel they're safe in doing so, unless they trust that you're not gonna hold it against them if they say something, you know, that they're not happy with or they tell you something that's really honest and frank, but which is maybe a little bit of a challenge. And I think to inspire that trust, you have to bring your your real self to every conversation. I also think you have to as a leader. I am not one of those people who subscribes to a total separation of personal and professional. I just don't think that works.

I don't think that works in many leadership roles because your leadership, your role certainly as CEO of a large organization spills into every aspect of your life. It's almost impossible for it not to because of the the demands of the job and your desire to do the job effectively, you know, requires that you do it when you need to do it. And that's not always between the hours of 8 and 5 or whenever. So, occasionally, I think it's important to share with your teams personal details about your life, what you're going through, what you're what you're working on, if you're distracted, why you're distracted, as well as the happy things, you know, that that make you human, the the successes your spouse or your partner, realizes that you're celebrating, you know, your children graduating or getting married or or accomplishing something, that humanizes you as a leader. And I think when when teams know their leader and know a little bit about their leader's life, it's easier to understand their decision making process because you understand who they are. You understand what their values are. I have worked for people who were very, what I refer to as, like, arms' length away from, their teams. Always professional.

Always all about work. Never never shared personal detail. And that's one way of operating. It's not mine. It's not mine. And I think too, in this day and age, again, foster open communication, which I think is essential to any high functioning team. There has to be constant, and sustained open communication and direct dialogue. You gotta inspire that trust, and you have to be your whole self.

And that's not just who you are at work. That's who you are every day. And the the individual with whom we just spoke, Kerry Alys Robinson, said one of the things that inspires her to be the leader she is is the notion, the maxim that, you know, you should have one story if you have integrity. Meaning, you are the same person at work as you are at home, as you are with your friends, as you are with, you know, professional colleagues. And I think that's really powerful, but that's, I think, also what I aspire to be is my true self, inspiring trust that will lead to open communication.  That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with Transparent Leadership.