Episode 11: Balancing Ambition and Family: Suzanne McCormick's Journey with the YMCA

Episode 11 Show Notes

In today's episode, we have Suzanne McCormick, the CEO of the YMCA in the United States. Suzanne shares her journey of shattering glass ceilings, navigating the complexities of leadership, and balancing career and family. Suzanne's professional growth strategies include visualizing leadership, continuous learning, and strategic career moves.

Suzanne opens up about women's challenges in the workplace, reflecting on pivotal experiences and the importance of mutual support in professional and personal life. She also discusses the need for more women in leadership positions within the YMCA and beyond, aiming to inspire a new generation of female leaders.

Tune in to hear Suzanne's unique perspectives, from supporting her husband's career to managing her own ambitions, and the invaluable lessons she's learned from both successes and failures.

Transcript

Suzanne McCormick:

So for me, being the first woman, I mean, one of the legacies that I wanna leave is that I am demonstrating and paving the way for more women who work for the y to see themselves in leadership positions. Almost 50% of our staff across the country are women, but only 30% are in CEO positions. So we've got a ways to go. And when I meet with young staff across the country, especially young women, I forget that they don't see enough examples of women in leadership until I am there and they share with me how meaningful it is for them to see a woman in this position. And I will start with a piece of advice. So this is a piece of advice that I give my 2, young adult children regularly. I have a 21 year old daughter and a 23 year old son. And what I say to them is the most important person to be loved by in the world is yourself.

And and I've always encouraged them to cultivate a love of self, not in a narcissistic way. And I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing the first time that I the thought crossed my mind where I thought I could lead an organization. And I can't remember exactly how old I was, but I know that I was driving and the radio was on, and they were announcing a new at the time, it was an executive director. I don't think the title was president and CEO of this nonprofit organization in our community. So they were announcing this new leader.

Kendra Davenport:

Come to onboard with transparent leadership. I am Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I'm thrilled to be joined today by Suzanne McCormack, who is my counterpart at YMCA US. So welcome, Suzanne. Happy, happy, happy to have you here.

Suzanne McCormick:

Thank you, Kendra. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Kendra Davenport:

I have been as well because you and I have the benefit of having met last summer being introduced by, actually, one of our former CEOs, and and we've had the pleasure of enjoying some dinners together and and wine. And I I've been dying to have this conversation with you so we can share with listeners some of the tips and tricks and tools of the trade, because I really think as the first female leader of the y, you're breaking new ground. And I would love for you first to start off by just sharing with our listeners a little bit about the why and what what makes it unique. I know you guys have been around even longer than we have. So over to you.

Suzanne McCormick:

Well, the why is, we are soon to celebrate our 100 and 75th anniversary here in the United States. The first YM CW was actually started in England, and then it came to the US about 5 or 6 years, later. And our focus is on strengthening families, members of all generations from little babies to senior citizens with a focus on 3 areas. We say healthy mind, body, and spirit. And so we look holistically about how to make kids stronger, make individuals stronger, and, ultimately, to make communities stronger. And we do that through all kinds of recreational programs. We're the largest nonprofit provider of, childcare in the United States. We're also the largest nonprofit provider of out of school time for young kids or school age kids.

Suzanne McCormick:

And then we just do a ton of other community based programming, depending on what a community needs from its Y.

Kendra Davenport:

Great overview. Thank you. Is there one thing about the why you think people don't get right or just don't understand that you wish more people knew?

Suzanne McCormick:

I think most people think the Y is only a, a gym or a place to go swim. And while those two things are true, and often that is the first experience someone has with the y, as I already said, we do so much more than that. We really are you know, physical health is but one aspect of what we focus on. We want families and kids to be strong through all dimensions. And so when I meet people and they say, oh, I go to my y, and and, you know, they tell me about their experience as we start to talk about the other work, sometimes they are completely amazed. Like, we have some YMCAs in the country, for example, who are, doing housing development projects. Again, it all depends on what a community needs, and is really good at filling the gaps through communities.

Kendra Davenport:

You and I have have talked about our our personal, experiences with the y. And I think I I remember sharing with you that my mom, god rest her soul, went to the y almost religiously to swim. And and we used to joke around in my family how much swimming was she really doing. It was really more, I think, socialization. So can you share a little bit about that? Because I think institutions and the why is an institution are so critical to the fabric of our society. And I think that's one of the things that gets missed is what what a sense of community and a and a sort of a center wise are for communities, big, large, urban, preurban. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Suzanne McCormick:

Well, I feel like I have I have met in my travels, many seniors who emulate your mother, I would say. I'm actually when you when you said that to me, I was, I was recalling a visit to the YMCA in Anchorage, Alaska, which I was there about this time last year. And one of the people I met was a 99 year old woman who was in the pool. She was in the pool doing water aerobics with about 35 other seniors, and I knelt down on the pool deck. And she came over, and she took my hand and introduced herself. And then we talked about coming to the y, and she said, well, as soon as I'm done, I'll come out of the pool. And there's a community room that's actually named after her because, like your mother, she she does go and exercise, but she spends probably more time post exercise in the community room, drinking coffee, and and, socializing with the other seniors. And that's the place they go.

It's the place they go. It's safe. It's where they belong. And, and I've seen that scene repeated in San Diego, California, in Athens, Georgia. I mean, that is like, seniors, it it's a safe place for them to go and to keep up their health, both physical and mental, and then just to hang out and be with their friends. It's I think that's some of the we say it's like the secret sauce of the why is it's it's a place where people can go and it's like feel like they belong.

Kendra Davenport:

Truly. Truly. And I'll add another interesting factoid that I I think, to me, really distinguishes the why and how ... you strive to be. And that's that my mother's best friend, who's also since passed away in the past few years, Barbara was confined to a wheelchair. She used a wheelchair most of her adult life after having had polio as an adolescent. And it was Barbara who introduced my mom to the y and said, you should come swim. And my mom said, well, how do you how do you navigate getting in the pool? And she said, they have a lift, and they've had one. And that was more than 20 years ago, Suzanne.

So I love that, and I I wanted to tell our listeners that. I touched on it at the beginning of our talk. You are the first female to lead the y. Can you talk a little bit about how the experience started, how it's going, and maybe what you see on the horizon?

Suzanne McCormick:

When when when people ask me that question, the other the other thing about myself that I always try to to point out as well because it's it's another dynamic that impacts, I think how I lead and also how my leadership is experienced or received. In addition to being the first woman, I am one of but a very few leaders of the Y USA who have never worked for the Y. This is my first.

Kendra Davenport:

You're an outsider.

Suzanne McCormick:

I am an outsider. And I'm an outsider and a woman. So depending on who you're talking to, that's either 2 strikes against me or it's 2 points in my favor. But it's it's it is, not surprisingly, it's, you know, an organization that is the YMCA, Young Men's Christian Association, IR Origins, started to serve men. It was led by men. And so, you know, that's part of our history. Still, though, I think, and so there's still a majority of our of our of our leaders of YMCAs are still men. And I would say, I think we're at a point in society. It's probably disproportionate. It is it is disproportionate to what our population looks like.

We need more women leaders. So for me, being the first woman, I mean, one of the legacies that I wanna leave is that I am demonstrating and paving the way for more women who work for the y to see themselves in leadership positions. Almost 50% of our staff across the country are women, but only 30% are in CEO positions. So we've got a ways to go. And when I meet with young staff across the country, especially young women, I forget that they don't see enough examples of women in leadership until I am there and they share with me how meaningful it is for them to see a woman in this position. So while I like to and and I always try to say, like, I just wanna be seen as a leader, I recognize the importance for for the women younger women to see a female leader. And I think my you know, I don't know that it's because I'm a female. I think I have a different leadership style than some of my predecessors, which some might, like, equate to being a woman.

I don't think so. I think I follow a facilitative leadership style or collaborative leadership style, and, that's a style that some folks are still learning.

Kendra Davenport:

I'm pulling up on my phone because I always forget the author, but I have been listening to, on audiobooks, When Women Lead by Julia Boursin. And I think much of what you said, she underscores. It's a terrific book. But one of the things you you touched on a little bit is that women young women don't have enough female examples in leadership positions. And you and I have talked many times about our counterparts. And if you look at some of the largest NGOs in the country, they're run by people like you and Meg, women in their fifties, in their early sixties. And you and I privately have reflected, you know, on the sacrifices and the trade offs that we make to to do these jobs. And, and I think you're like me.

You wouldn't trade it. But can you talk I don't wanna get too personal. I don't wanna put you on the spot, but I'd love for our listeners to know about what some of those things have been for you, how you've overcome them. And if you frame it as advice you would give to a young woman who is maybe 5, 10 years into her career, And that's, I think, from my perspective, where things really started to get tough when you're juggling a family and you're juggling, you know, co parenting and you're juggling 2 jobs, 2 careers. Can you talk a little bit about that and what some of those challenges have been to you or that you've had to overcome?

Suzanne McCormick:

Yes. And I will start with a piece of advice. So this is a piece of advice that I give my 2, young adult children regularly. I have a 21 year old daughter and a 23 year old son. And what I say to them is the most important person to be loved by in the world is yourself. And and I've always encouraged them to cultivate a love of self, not in a narcissistic way, but, an appreciation of yourself and a comfort with yourself because what I've said to them, this is maybe a little morbid. I'm like, the only person you're guaranteed to spend the rest of your life with is yourself. And so you you have to you have to know that you can rely on on your sense of self and your and your love of self to get you through challenging or hard times.

And and I say that because I, like, I anchor back to that whenever I'm in challenging situations where we're going back to being the first woman, you know, when you have to put up with a lot criticism or there's a lot of critique or there's a million people who think they can do your job better than you, you know, I have to rely on, I'm okay. Like, I gotta be kind to myself. But but talking about, like, the challenges, yeah, I mean, I well, I think nowadays, you know, it's probably challenging for both men and women as you think about how to be successful in your career, but also wanna be successful in the other parts of your life that are important to you, whether it is with a family, you know, as a parent or as a caregiver to a family member. And, again, I think what I've learned is you gotta give yourself grace and know that you cannot be perfect in all of those dimensions at the same time. And that you go through I at least for me, I go through cycles of, okay. I feel really good about how I'm doing in my job, but I kinda stink right now at being a wife or being a mom or being present. And and when I get that feeling, then I just try to think about, well, how do I how do I Balance that. Balance that or kinda soft like, come out from, like, being really low and kinda get to this this middle place.

The other thing that I and I, you know, I I know now that this is a privilege of being a leader is I can be very forthright with with saying I'm going to not do this right now because I need to spend time with my family. I tried to model that very early in my my first CEO job I got when I was 35, and I was always totally transparent with my calendar so my team could see. Like, if I had to go pick up my kids, like, I I I didn't wanna hide the fact that I was a mom too and that I was trying to do that well. And and over time that was a vulnerability on my part. But over time, and I continue to hear this even now, your team appreciates that because you're giving them permission to be all the other things that they are in their life as well. So true. Yeah. So true.

Kendra Davenport:

And I think you and I are share have shared similarities in the way we cope and the way we manage. And the transparency is something that I am very, very, committed to for for the same reasons as well as others. I just think, there's no place for opacity in in leadership.

Suzanne McCormick:

And don't apologize for it either. I mean and I get I think that comes with it's way easier when you've got this many years and this much experience. But I do say to be you know, like, I'll be the you can see hair appointment on my calendar. You I don't I don't have that stuff because I'm like, that's just part of being a person. And

Kendra Davenport:

That is a perfect segue to my next question or or line of discussion for us. And and that is a feeling I have, and I don't dwell on it, but I do have it that that working writ large for women is more challenging by virtue of the fact that so much more is expected of us. And, you know, sorry, guys. I just this is the way I feel. We're not expected just to come to work and do a good job do better than a good job, But we're expected to look the part. And I think that can be very, very daunting for anyone. Even those of us with a strong, as my kids would say, strong sense of self, a lot of self confidence. There are moments, and I had one this morning as I was putting a video together.

I, you know, on the fly, always trying to do too many things, and we'll get to that too, how we balance because I sometimes I feel, as you said, I'm not doing a great job of balancing, and and I am the one that suffers. But as I I put the video together, that's gonna go out to our affiliate network. So hundreds of people will see it. And it was done okay. I didn't flub any lines. I tend to speak directly from the heart and and extemporaneously. But what I obsessed over the entire way to work on my walk in was how old and how tired I look. And I wonder I I just don't think our male counterparts have those conversations with self about, is my hair done? Do I look tired? Do I have my makeup on right? Am I wearing the same clothes too often? Do I look the part? Do you ever have those feelings, or are you are you much more self actualized than than I am?

Suzanne McCormick:

Well, I will say, like, again, with time and experience, I I get to the place I've gotten to the place where I'm like, it doesn't matter as much anymore to me. Having said that, I will be the first to watch my video and say, oh my gosh, The circle's under my eyes. Or the Yes. I know why, why do I look so tired? But but I do in moments like that, I, I try to connect back, connect myself back to, one of my earlier experiences when I was fairly fresh in my career. I would think I was probably 27, 28 years, And I was working for a nonprofit organization, and and I was in advancing in my career to a place where I I was actually allowed to come to the board meetings of the organization, and it had a very, very, well respected board of community leaders. And one of the one of the women on the board that was the most revered and respected was still, like like, probably now 10 or 11 years my senior now. And she was retired, and her name was Betsy Ann Holmes. And I remember watching would, like, stare down people.

And and she had gray hair, but she was lovely. And I thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world because she was she she commanded a room. She was so well respected, and so she gave me this image of seasoned experience that I I I coached myself. I'm like, okay. You're getting closer to becoming Beth's Anne Holmes when you look older. Right. That's how I'm navigating that space now, Kendra. I'm like, oh, I'm becoming that that, you know, confident senior who Butler sees profession.

Who people can still look up to even though you're you look older, because it wasn't like, that was part of what I loved about her was she just yeah. She was exquisite even in her age. So that's what I aspire to, to still have the I love that. About your it's less about your your your physical looks and it's more about the presence that you bring to your work.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. And I love that there are pivotal women who come in and out of our lives from whom we take a little bit like that and and think, okay. I'm going to apply that. And I can remember, I went to an all women's Catholic college. And at the end of my, I don't know, junior or senior I think it was junior year, we had speakers come in. And Caroline Stewart, now Caroline Stewart Lacey, was a speaker who came in, and I was I felt the same way about her as you just described, feeling about your your board your fellow board member. She was so polished. She was much older than I was.

Obviously, I was in college, but she was what I wanted to aspire to be, you know, right down to her, you know, black patent leather pumps at the time. I just thought, wow. She's so professional. She was a the business buzz columnist at the time for the Philadelphia Inquirer. And she has she and I have stayed in touch, and she remains sort of a touchstone. And at the time, so young, hadn't even started my career, I remember thinking I want to emulate her. And I think I think there are definitely, you know, young women out there who look at the landscape and think, I can't I can't even afford to buy a house. How am I going to get to a point where I can actually think about leading an organization? So if you if you think about the pragmatic things you did, and I think you and I have probably shared a lot of luck happens, a lot of happenstance.

You're at the right place in the right time. Someone champions you. But if you were going to give that pragmatic advice to someone who says, I want to be a female CEO someday, but here's what I'm grappling with. How do I get there? What are some of the tips or tricks that you did that you look back on and think that really helped me propel me to to where I am now and help me achieve my goals? What would those be?

Suzanne McCormick:

Three things immediately came to one mind. The first is is eventually you have to get to a place where you can you can envision yourself there. And I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing the first time that I the thought crossed my mind where I thought I could lead an organization. And I can't remember exactly how old I was, but I know that I was driving and the radio was on and they were announcing a new at the time, it was an executive director. I don't think the title was president and CEO of this nonprofit organization in our community. So they were announcing this new leader, and I knew him. And I, like, had an opinion on his capability. And I heard that he had gotten this job, and I thought, oh my god.

If he if he can do that, I can do that. Like, I can do that. And it and I I'll never and and ironically, my first CEO job was of that organization, when I was 35 years old. But to get there, there were 2 other things. 1 was a one was an event and the other was a mindset. I I definitely was raised in the generation of you gotta work your way up and prove yourself, and you have to go above and beyond, and nothing is given. Everything is earned. And so I I really did have that mindset of of I always want to learn the next job, and I wanted to learn the jobs around me.

And after a period of time, once I felt like I mastered something, I would look to do something more or take on more responsibility. And that mattered because it it gave other people visibility into my initiative and my ability to contribute in multiple ways. But the probably one of the hardest things I did was in an organization. I had worked there for 8 and a half years. I had worked my way up into multiple roles, and I got to a place where there was no place else to go except, like, the CFO or the CEO. And I wasn't ready for either one of those, But but I knew that I needed more experience, so I decided to leave. And I left that organization, and I went to another organization where I could take on additional responsibility. And and that move allowed me again eventually to come back to that organization as the CEO eventually, because I knew that's what I wanted, but I knew that I was gonna have to go get more experience.

So I had to step out of the comfort of that organization and kinda start fresh on a different level in a different organization.

Kendra Davenport:

Great example. Do you consider yourself ambitious? Yes.

Suzanne McCormick:

I am. That's I think I'm I think this is gonna sound I think I'm I feel like I'm a humble leader, but I am definitely I don't I'm very competitive. I I like to achieve things. And so, yes, I have to say that I am ambitious.

Kendra Davenport:

There's a reason I asked that. And the the follow-up question is, is grounded in the the notion. And I actually think it's more than a notion because I've experienced it so many times, because I too think I am an ambitious female, and I I want to advance. I want to do more. I I'd live by the axiom, you know, making the most of every day. I really want to go to sleep every night and think I didn't waste. I didn't squander that day. I might be exhausted, but made the most of it.

And and then I help people, you know, all of the good things, you know, that I that I was humble or that I brought my best self to that. But I can remember vividly times when my ambition was used against me, was weaponized, if you will. I hate that word, but it's a perfect word for it. And I can remember one instance very, very clearly not so long ago when I went in for my performance evaluation, and my CEO said to me, well, no one can deny you're doing a great job. And I thought, okay. Where is this going? And he then said, but you're so aggressive, and you're brash. And it took me a long time to get over that because I thought, really you know, in retrospect, I kept thinking, am I aggressive, or am I assertive? Am I brash, or am I do I have strong opinions that I'm not afraid to share? And I've squared, you know, the conversation in my head. I know now what triggered it and what what, you know, my reaction was to it was appropriate.

I think that that situation, that experience has been likely experienced by every woman who, you know, identifies as being ambitious. Have do you have any of those have you had any of those experiences? And and if so, can you share one with us?

Suzanne McCormick:

I can't recall call one that was as overt as that, Kendra, but I wanna make a comment on that as I do think I think, you know, when you said that, you know, I I immediately asked myself what I think women ask ourselves all the time now. Would they would he have said that to me if I was a man? Right. No. Probably not. Although, like, that's why you need good that's why you, although that's why you do need good friends and colleagues and peer and mentors around you that you can check-in on it to say, was there something in there that I should be aware of? And if the answer is no, then you you chalk it up to, like, he would not have said that to me if I was if I was a man. I I early in my career, this is the what came to mind. It was not nearly that over, but and I'm gonna tell you what I did about it. I I was not as assertive.

I was but I was feeling. I was working. I was reporting to a man, and I was in that kind of situation where I felt like I am doing his job for him, and he is getting all the credit. And, and it was starting to make my blood boil because and it was also he was so patronizing. Like, he was doing me the favor, and and and I got to this point where I was like, I am doing half of his job. And so so my assertiveness was eventually, I like, I went to the CEO and I said so my my my example might be a little bit opposite of yours. I went it was a female CEO too, and she was a strong assertive leader too. And I went to her and I made the case that I felt like she should separate his responsibilities into 2 roles.

And it was I had a good business case for it too because, the one part of the work there were 2 different kinds of work. Long story short, I made the case, and she said yes. And she let me she let me do it. But as I reflect on your story and my experience, I think if it had been a male leader, I don't think I don't think they I don't think it would have happened. Like, I I really do think because it was a strong female leader who saw something, who related, that she rewarded me. I'm just I think it could have gone the other way if if it had been because gender well, gender definitely played out much more so 25 years ago than it does now. Yeah.

Kendra Davenport:

Absolutely. I think we're making progress. Yeah. I do think we're making progress, but I do think there are still inherent challenges that women experience that men don't.

Suzanne McCormick:

Well and I will tell you though sometimes when I am with, like, in my current environment, I have to I'll have to even dial up the volume on my own assertiveness sometimes because you have to match the energy in the room sometimes. Yes. Not always. And I'm not I do not subscribe to playing into somebody else's style all the time. But if I feel like I'm starting to get, like, pushed around a little bit, I'll square my shoulders and sit up a little by those shoulders.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. Let's talk about juxtaposition of ambition, and you touched on it, humility. Is there can you share a time when you think I really blew it? One of your biggest failures and how you rebounded from that? How you what you took away? What you learned from it? How you avoided it?

Suzanne McCormick:

One of my biggest professional failures was I was leading an organization and, took a big risk in terms of, committing us to it was an organization that was not good at fundraising, And I took a big risk on on putting our name on an event, and I and I, like, hook, line, and sinker, the the person who convinced me that this was gonna be a no brainer. This was a no fail opportunity for my organization to put their name on this event. It was like a it was a concert on a pier downtown. Long story short, it failed miserably, and it failed to the tune of like, we lost This is not well, this was a lot better. So it was, like, $75,000. And I had to own that. I'm the one who convinced the board that we should do it, and and it was a dismal failure by any measure. Any measure.

I learned a lot. Like, I did learn a lot, but I I lost some credibility for a while with my with my board, and I had to take a much more sort of conservative stance for a while. Yeah. That was one of my that was it was a big fail. It was a big fail. And but I you know what? I've had other failures too, and I think that's that's one of the questions I always ask people when I'm interviewing to hire onto my team is I'm always say, tell me about I always say that too. Tell me about one of your failures. And I don't wanna hear about a personal failure.

I wanna hear about a professional failure. And how someone answers that question, it's one of the most important questions for me because if someone cannot admit failure, truly admit it, then I don't want them on my team because you know, it happens.

Kendra Davenport:

And you have the phone or and and I think some of those big failures are they teach you so much more than just the the gist of the failure and what you'll do in, you know, in the future to avoid that or, you know, as you said, to a more conservative stance. It influences your you professionally going forward, and and I I appreciate you sharing that. That vulnerability that vulnerability, I think, is how we inculcate in up and coming female leaders the the opportunity to be themselves. That's one of the perfect all the time.

Suzanne McCormick:

That's one of the easier ones because it was it was like operational decisions. I mean, I think the other failures that feel more poignant to me that are probably harder to talk about are the ones when I when I feel like I failed someone on my team, either how I treated them or

Kendra Davenport:

Yes.

Suzanne McCormick:

How the organization treated them or, you know, like, rethinking decisions on things, like not giving the right feedback or giving the wrong like, those are the ones that, like, stick with me. Like, I got over the 75,000 because it was you know? It's those it's the people ones that stick with you.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, I agree. And I I think in a in a previous role, I can remember celebrating one part of my team's success and doing a little impromptu, like, wine and cheese for them. But I did it in the same area where other people were working and invited some, not all. And halfway through, I looked over at people at their desks while we were having wine and cheese not so far away and thought this was a big fail. Be because of what you just said. Because of the way I unintentionally made people feel. You know? They're enjoying themselves, but here I am. Am I not as important? I is my work not as valued? And they're partying, having a great time, and I'm still trying to close out our day's work.

I apologized for that to my entire team and made a mental note to be more careful going forward about people's feelings. And and I agree. I've had plenty of of professional failures, but the ones that stick with me as well are when I feel I let people down. Yeah. People close to me, people that I trust and that I rely on. So it's a lot. It's a balancing act. Leadership, I think, at any level is a balancing act.

Can you talk a little bit about how you stay buoyant? How you keep yourself going? What you do to recharge professionally and personally?

Suzanne McCormick:

Well, I was asked this question recently. I'm gonna get I was on a panel. I'm gonna give the same 3 because of the things that come to mind, and they're not very exciting. I say it's kind of back to basics. I am I I need sleep. Like, I am a 7 to 8 hour a night sleeper. Like, if I don't get that, I can feel it. So sleep is it's a necessity and one of my secret weapons.

I, I also have found my way back to running, which was always, like, an important, not always important part of my life, but my adult life. And so I've gotten religious around my running again. It's the best part of every day. And and, unfortunately, it's usually over by 7:30. And when I'm running, I'm always like, this is the best part of the day. This is the best part of the day. And then the other kind of quirky thing, but I actually believe that it is it helps my brain heal, is when I'm home, I almost always have a 1,000 piece puzzle going. And I do puzzles, and I dream in puzzles, and it's just a way for my mind to relax.

So those are my it's very boring and dorkish...

Kendra Davenport:

No. I think we're kindred spirits because I'm a puzzler as well, and there is a puzzle gathering dust because I I alternate between needlepoint and puzzling. I'm so esoteric. I sound like I'm 90, but those are the things that keep me grounded. Right? Those are definitely the things that helped me come down. Yeah. Tell us, if you can, one thing that no one can Google about you. What's something that you can share that that no one really knows?

Suzanne McCormick:

Can it be anything? Anything. Yes. If you're sitting on this side of me and you look closely, you can see that I had my nose pierced.

Kendra Davenport:

I didn't think we'd get this good.

Suzanne McCormick:

Okay. Well, you know, I'm trying to come up with something new and original. I, when I when I was finished with my Peace Corps service, I I met up with 3 of my friends 4 of my friends in, we we met in Calcutta, India, and we spent a couple days there. And then we went to Nepal, and we spent 6 weeks in Nepal before we came back to India. And on the night that we were leaving Nepal, you know, we had, like, a late flight back to India, and, you know, we were out. And, my closest friend and I, we had been talking about it, but we went and had a couple beers, and we got went and got our noses pierced. And so we came back from the peace corps with, with little diamonds in our noses.

Kendra Davenport:

That is fabulous. And I can't wait to delve more into this side of Suzanne the next time we meet. Oh my gosh. I love that. Love that story. So

Suzanne McCormick:

But after that, maybe you will be able to Google that about me.

Kendra Davenport:

Now we can. Now it's out there. Now it's gonna be out there. You have achieved so much, and I'm wondering, is there something still unconquered? Is there something looming that you say, well, I'd like to do that before I before I call it quits. Not that you are. But, but but is there anything that that and maybe it's not even in a professional capacity. Maybe it's in a voluntary capacity. Maybe it's utilizing the experience, you know, you've gained.

Is there something on the horizon for you that you you would like to do?

Suzanne McCormick:

There's not not on the immediate horizon, but I will say that there are there are 3 things that I have thought about enough times in my life that, and I'm I don't I don't think that I'm going to do all 3 of them. I may do none of them, but I will if if I am, like, on my deathbed and conscious and talking and, like, if my one of my kids said, mom, is there anything that you thought you were gonna do? Or I'm just gonna be honest. 1, I I always thought I wanted to, like, write a book, and I wanted to write a book about my, about my Peace Corps experience because I have boxes of every single letter. Every single letter I wrote to my parents, they gave them back to me. Every single letter I wrote to my husband, who was my, like, sort of boyfriend at the time, to my siblings, and I have every letter that they wrote back to me. So I have, like, this treasure of letters, and I always thought, could this be, like, a a cool story? So that's one thing. I also this is what this is probably the most realistic. I I have contemplated, like, my last hurrah, my last job.

I thought maybe I wanted to go be a what I call a country director for the Peace Corps. Like, go and because it's like a 5 year stint, and you go run the program in the country. And then the other is, I always thought I might wanna run for the US senate. That's probably the one that I won't do.

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, that's the one I hope you do. And now that's gonna be the the basis for our next dinner conversation. Trust me. I'm so I'm I'm so glad we're mining all this data, the nose piercing, the I know. Campaign. This is great. One of the things I remember so vividly about the first time we met was that we shared similar super similar experiences. And I I think I asked you, so do you live here in Chicago? And you said, oh, no. No. No. I commute here. And I thought, oh my god. We're doing the same thing. And I said, well, I commute here. I commute to Chicago where Easterseals is based, and the y is based in Chicago. I I'm doing it from Virginia.

Where are you doing it from? And you said Florida. And I think my jaw dropped because I thought, wow. Not only are we kindred spirits doing the same thing, but you're doing a longer commute than I am. Your organization is arguably 10 times larger than Easterseals, which leads me to my next question. And you brought him up. You you said your then sort of boyfriend, now husband. I think it takes a a really supportive partner to make something like this work, and you and I have talked about this privately. Can you share your failings on it? Maybe you agree.

Maybe you don't just you you disagree with me, but how do you make that work?

Suzanne McCormick:

I agree with you a 100%, and I I I think so my husband and I, we celebrate 30 our 30th anniversary this year. And I didn't tell you this, that we're actually leaving on Thursday to go to Ireland...

Kendra Davenport:

Oh my gosh.

Suzanne McCormick:

I know. For our to celebrate our 30th with my sister-in-law and and her husband. But I you could ask both of us this question. I think we would answer it very similarly is is I think maybe we recognize it more now than we did when we were in the moment. But when we look back on 30 well, it's 30 plus years. We have each had to step up differently at different times to support the other based on where they were in their professional career and their experience. And I I think it's fair to say, and I think Bill, who's my husband, would say that there was a point when he was really building his business. He's a physical therapist, was a partner in a they built a very large successful physical therapy practice where I had to carry a lot of the heavy at home water, and that allowed him to really be, you know, 500% into building that.

And still, I was doing my own career. As you said, I was ambitious, taking care of the kids. And then and then at some point, it shifted. And he got to a place where he started to think about, okay. I'm not gonna put that much energy in it into it anymore. I mean, it was really like a a mental physical moment for him. And it was after he made that decision that it became much easier for him to think about, okay. How can I support you to do everything you wanna do in your career? And I could not do I would not be where I am if we had not had that swap off.

It was I was able we moved to Florida for me to take a new big job. And and we were only able to do that because he was ready to to dial it back, which ended up being hugely amazing for he and our kids. Like, he that gave him a chance to play a bit of a different role. And, and I couldn't do my job now without, you know, him being supportive. But he used to always say, and I it's so true. He would say, he's like, Suze, I'm your I'm your phone booth, meaning, like, Wonder Woman or Superwoman or Superman. You have to go into the phone booth to change your, like, out of your ordinary. And I was like, you are my phone booth.

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. I love that. And I know just listening to you and and and hearing the passion in your voice for what you do. I'd love to know what you consider to be the best part of your job. What enthuses you more than anything? Knowing that there are myriad of things. There would have to be. But what is it that that is really the the thing that motivates and moves you most?

Suzanne McCormick:

Well, I think I think this is based on the conversations we've had. I think this may be similar for you as well is because we talk about, like, when on the when it gets when you feel like you're mired in too much of the internal operations or it's starting to feel like, oh, this is hard and annoying, or it's like getting out and seeing the work of the YMCA's on the ground. Like, seeing 100%. Why team members 100%. Interacting with kids or seniors. Like, that's that is that's all you need to say, I'm going at it again for, you know, at a 100 100 plus percent, and it's just just like seeing the work in action. That's that's the greatest motivator.

Kendra Davenport:

I agree, and you're right. We have talked a lot about this. Yeah. That I feel that time in the field, as I call it, is is the most motivational. And I often find myself so moved by people's stories and not just the participants, but the staff members. And I know you've you know, your your teams share that in common with many people at Easterseals who have been around for decades and stick with the mission, and it's hard not to be inspired by that. I I knew I would enjoy this conversation so much. And I think before we close out, we got a couple more things to do.

Is there anything you'd like to share about the why that you really want people to know?

Suzanne McCormick:

you don't know I mean, I I want I wanna challenge people to get to know their why beyond what their personal experience is because it's there's a myriad of things that wise do that people they don't they just go in sometimes. Like, I see people come in and they punch their card and they go do their thing and they don't look around. And the real opportunity at a wise to look around and to see what else is happening and to be curious about it and and and be curious and explore. Is it something you wanna be a part of either as a giver or a getter, I would say?

Kendra Davenport:

I love that. Where can people go to find out more about the why?

Suzanne McCormick:

I think just ymca.org is the the best place. That's our general website, and, you can find your why there.

Kendra Davenport:

We like to end all of these segments with an ask me anything question. But before I get to that, I have one final question for you, Suzanne. And and anybody who knows me knows I read constantly. I, like you, unlike you. I I don't require I I probably require 8 hours of sleep. I don't get 8 hours of sleep. I have a hard time sleeping, so I'm often reading, and I read 3 or 4 books at a time. You know? Some don't some some take years to finish depending on how interested I am.

But others, I rapidly go through, and I read everything from fiction to self help to workbooks, to biographies, of leaders, to professional development stuff. Is there something you're reading now that you can share with our listeners that you're really enjoying or an audiobook you're listening to?

Suzanne McCormick:

2 things I would share. 1 is, one is a book that I just finished over the weekend, and I'm it's called Trust and it is it's fiction. It is a super smart book. It's not an easy read, but it is it is so smart. Like, it's it's like 4 different novels in a novel, and it is has an ending that's really fascinating. I mean, it's I'm still marveling on that.

Kendra Davenport:

Diaz? Is that the author?

Suzanne McCormick:

Yes.

Kendra Davenport:

Okay. Trust by Herman Diaz.

Suzanne McCormick:

Yes. That's it. Yes. And and then the other is one that I'm listening to and, because this was recommended to me by one of my executive, team members. It's called the Friction Project, and, it is by Robert Sutton. It's how smart leaders make the right things easier and the wrong things harder in an organization. So it's, it's about the friction fixers, like the people who fix friction and then the people who, like, perpetuate the friction. And, it's it's it's it's really interesting.

Kendra Davenport:

That makes me think of something my husband has always talked to me about and that's he he refers to it as rock management. And rock management is, you know, bring me a rock. Okay. Not that rock. I want another rock. I don't want that rock. That's not the rock I envisioned. So it's kinda similar.

And thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for your candor and your vulnerability and for just being you. I I so enjoy our time together, enjoy, you know, collaborating with you, look forward to doing a lot more of that, but I'm very grateful that you made the time today to talk with me on this podcast.

Suzanne McCormick:

Well, the feeling is mutual. Thank you.

Kendra Davenport:

Thank you so much. Leaders are sometimes in a tough spot. What advice would you offer to leaders out there who are addressing tension between organizational strategy and their team's emotions? This is a this is a really a good question because it's a very tricky balance. I think organizational strategy is the road map. It's how you get from point a to point b, c, d, b, wherever you want to go. And that map is important. But I think to get there, you have to ensure that your staff feels supported and valued, and that requires listening. It requires listening to people's opinions.

And I would have to say, if there's something that I need to work on, it is listening first and more and more intently. I think at times in my haste to get things done and move the ball down the field, advance our progress, I am quick to judge. I am quick to come up with, you know, okay. This is how I feel or or shoot somebody down. And if leaders do that too quickly as I often do, and I think I come around. I try anyway to come around, but I'm I'm really making a a concerted effort to listen more, to not give my opinion instantly, and to not shoot somebody down so quickly. And when I do, I kinda do this mental dance with myself where I say, okay. Call that back and have a do over there and say or if I do feel really strongly about something, at least let someone explain to me why they feel the way they do, why their opinion differs from my own.

Creating those safe spaces is very important, because you don't want a lot of yes people in the room. You don't want people to just assent, and consent just to get going, just to get on with their day. You want people to push back and really offer differing opinions. And if you don't have that, then you're operating in a, you know, an echo chamber, and that isn't helpful to anyone, but especially to your team because people don't stay if they don't feel valued. And yet, I think, I think many leaders, myself included, are balancing so many things that it can be tricky to ensure that your team's emotions are where yours are. And oftentimes, you know, my children used to say, mom, you breathe and create work. And I take that to heart because I never want my team to feel like I'm just giving I'm just dumping. I'm just dumping things I don't want to do or that I don't have time for on their shoulders.

But I am of from the school of of hard knocks that you gotta do everything yourself at least once or for a period of time before you can move on to greener pastures where you're not dealing with the the drudgery of day to day stuff. And yet every job has that stuff. So taking the time to ensure that your your team's on board and that they feel good about their contributions, I think, is how you square that tension between addressing organizational strategy and supporting your team's emotions and intellectual buy in and professional development. It really calls upon all of us to be human and to understand that our teams are human. That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with Transparent Leadership.