Episode 10: Alesia Frerichs—Mentorship and Career Growth in Nonprofits with Alesia Frerichs

Episode 10 Show Notes

Welcome to On Board with Transparent Leadership, a podcast hosted by Kendra Davenport, President and CEO of Easterseals. Here, she speaks with leaders from some of the country’s top organizations, and together they explore how transparent leadership can impact communication, trust building and foster a culture of openness and accountability. We hope these conversations offer you practical insights and tools to positively impact your organization.

In today's episode, our host Kendra Davenport sits down with Alesia Frerichs, the president and CEO of Lutheran Services in America. In this conversation, Alesia shares her recent experiences visiting various human services organizations in Ohio, the essential role of nonprofits as training grounds for future leaders, and the importance of finding purpose in one's work.

Together, they explore the challenges and rewards of the nonprofit sector, the vital role of mentorship, and strategies for maintaining balance and avoiding burnout. Plus, Alesia and Kendra share their favorite reads and discuss the value of strong female leaders.

Get ready for an episode filled with wisdom, inspiration, and practical tips for those committed to making a difference. Be sure to listen, subscribe, and leave a review! Let's get started.

Links:

• Learn more about Alesia Frerichs.
• Connect with Kendra Davenport.

Transcript

Alesia Frerichs:

We are the national network of Lutheran Health and Human Services from across the country. We're a large community, over 300 organizations, founded sort of in that shared faith tradition of service and community. I am really passionate about the role that the non profit sector plays in our society. And when I thought about taking my new position, I asked myself, what does the world look like without the non profit sector? What does the world look like without faith based non profit sector? And I was like, I don't like what that world looks like. You know, as a leader, I think it's really important for us in particular to be kind of assess where we are and understand, okay, maybe this is where we wanna be, but it's okay. And we're gonna get to where we need to be.

Kendra Davenport:

Welcome to onboard with transparent leadership in Easterseals podcast. I am Kendra Davenport, president and CEO of Easterseals, and I am thrilled to be joined today by Alesia Frerichs, president and CEO of Lutheran Services in America. Welcome, Alesia.

Alesia Frerichs:

Thank you very much. It's great to be here.

Kendra Davenport:

Thanks for joining me. Do me a favor, if you will, and just tell our listeners what Lutheran Services does, and then we'll move into how you join them. Because I know you've had a really interesting career as most people who, you know, end up in a leadership position have, but you've worked on the dark side for for profit and on and on the nonprofit side. But first, give our give our listeners an overview of what Lutheran Services does.

Alesia Frerichs:

Wonderful. Thank you. So Lutheran Services in America, we are the national network of Lutheran Health and Human Services from across the country. We're a large community, over 300 organizations, founded sort of in that shared faith tradition of service and community. And, some founded before the civil war, others more more recently. We have a large presence, 1400 communities, 46 states, providing $26,000,000,000 of services every year and, really focused on what we call advancing health and opportunity for all. So health in the broadest sense of the word, mind, body, and spirit.

Kendra Davenport:

Well, that's thank you. That's super helpful. Lot of entities moving at once. Right? So tricky for any leader. Talk to me a little bit about what drew you to this role because I know you've been there a while. And prior to that, you were a consultant for about a decade. Prior to that, you were in the private sector. So talk a little bit about your journey into this leadership position you've held for a while now.

Kendra Davenport:

Right.

Alesia Frerichs:

Well and you've mentioned the fact that I've had 3 careers, and I like to say I finally found my dream job.

Kendra Davenport:

That's great. That's great.

Alesia Frerichs:

So, yeah, I definitely I started out in technology and then did consulting for several years. Actually, I had my own consulting practice for about 11 and it was consulting that brought me to Lutheran Services in America. I, was intentional through my consulting practice to start developing my expertise in, the nonprofit sector, and I had a focus on education and health care and the environment. And so ended up being a consultant for a while, with Lutheran Services in America. And at one point, after a couple years of asking me, the president and CEO, my predecessor, Charlotte Haberacker asked me once again. And, I remember where I was, and I was like, yes. I I I wanted I want to join. It it was just I actually felt very calm, so I went home and told my husband that, you know, I wanted to kind of change careers.

Alesia Frerichs:

And was he in? And he said yes. And so I haven't looked back. It's it's, it's an amazing network of, you know, a lot of our organizations are really large complicated, health and human service providers, sometimes the largest nonprofits in their state. So the people that I get to work with are really that they could be doing anything they want, and they've chosen to live lives of service and make the world a better place. And so I say, where else would I wanna be?

Kendra Davenport:

Oh, I love that. I love that. And I that that really I can relate to that. I've spent my entire career in nonprofit and have had a number of opportunities to go into the private sector and just, and just really feel that, my motivation comes from what you just described, helping other people, being called to a higher purpose, and maybe even having your faith or your values, right, imbued in all you do on the day to day. I I've always found as a mom, working mom, that helps. That was always the spackle that held everything together. Right? So Yeah. Talk to me if you can about what some of what you perceive to be some of the biggest challenges facing nonprofit leaders today.

Kendra Davenport:

And if you can relate that to your own experience and say you know, tell our audience what what your biggest challenge is as a leader, as a manager of people right now Mhmm. What that might be. There are

Alesia Frerichs:

a lot of challenges facing the nonprofit sector. And I have to say that I am really passionate about the role that the nonprofit sector plays in our society. And when I thought about taking my new position, I asked myself, what does the world look like without the nonprofit sector? What does the world look like without space based nonprofit sector? And I was like, I don't like what that world looks like, and I, you know, I wanna do what I can to strengthen it. You know, we have increasing competition with, the for profit sector and private equity space. And in places you wouldn't imagine, foster care, And, you know, we know that when profits emotive, there are different outcomes, right, as opposed to people. And so I think that the challenge with that is I know I'm an economist by training, so I'm not afraid of competition, but I think the challenge becomes to a certain extent we get a a a un unlevel playing field. Right? That it's really hard to make investments that we need to make where, it's hard to kind of develop that capital to to be responsive to some of the really big changes in our society, like technology and AI and those kind of things where there's just that advantage in in the for profit sector. So I think the increasing competition, they hire acuity.

Alesia Frerichs:

You know, we as mission based organizations, we don't just come into a community and stay as long as we can make a profit and then leave. Right? We're there for the long haul, and so working with, you know, there's a a much higher level of acuity in communities, which requires a higher level of skill and care. Workforce is everybody's challenge, and I think that, you know, we I if we talk about a challenge in the nonprofit sector, particularly the health and human service sector, you know, what does human services look like when there are no humans to serve? You know, and working through how do we think about engaging, you know, bringing more people into the workforce through alternative ways, look looking at credentialing differently, and those kind of things. So I would I would definitely say, you know, those are some of the top were government funded by and large, and so that adds another layer of challenge as well.

Kendra Davenport:

Absolutely. I mean, I think many of the things you just touched on, I've experienced. And one of the things I'd I'd love you to tease out a little bit about about it with you is is the competition from the private sector. And I don't necessarily mean in terms of program app programs, you know, that that nonprofits are running the thing. I mean more in terms of maintaining, retaining staff, attracting staff. And I I've always thought there was a a real struggle in the nonprofit sector to acquire the best people because typically we don't pay at the same as as our for profit counterparts. I think that that the the scales are changing. Right? And they're and and they're moving heavier in favor of working for a nonprofit because of the emphasis on quality of life, purpose, and meaning of of jobs.

Kendra Davenport:

And yet I still feel it's a little tricky. We still can offer some of the benefits that for profits can. Do you experience the same thing at Lutheran Services?

Alesia Frerichs:

I see that particularly, and I just came back from a visit in Ohio, yesterday where I was with, you know, like I said, we we span the broad spectrum of human services. So I was with organization that has a lot of, does a lot of disability services and then another organization that does, a food pantry and then another one that does, affordable housing and, you know, the general observation is particularly at the entry level, and I don't know if it's this generation that kinda spurs through things. They get a lot of experience in the nonprofit sector. And then in, you know, in the health care sector, then they go and they can work, and and earn Yeah.

Kendra Davenport:

Unfortunately, I think the same much. Yeah. Yeah. I think we see the same thing in techno tech positions. Mhmm. Positions having to do with data or or maintenance of our website. It's tricky because just as you said, this is a training ground. Nonprofits offer, I think, a very familiar warm environment, where the individual is often championed, and then they acquire those skills and leave.

Kendra Davenport:

So one of the things I also think is inherent with that struggle is maintaining morale, because you touched on that in the at the very top of this episode when you said, you know, nonprofits are facing terrific challenges. A lot of them are financial. When you're constantly working with such tight margins, I think it can be a morale sapper. Right? So how as a leader do you help, you know, improve your your team's morale, maintain good morale? Is there any trick or tip you you rely on that you think works well to achieve that balance positive balance?

Alesia Frerichs:

Yeah. So it's a good question. I think, so there are challenges when we think about the workforce, but then I think of all the bright spots of the amazing people that, you know, I have on my team and that I get to meet throughout all my travels. And, you know, that that sense of purpose and being part of something bigger than yourself, is a big calling and a common factor, you know, that I really see across the network and across the organization. So I think that, you know, the morale can come from really the the purpose of the work to a certain extent and to really you know, we have this expression that, you know, who else? If it's if we don't do it, who else will do this? Right? And so, it's really I think that almost gives you some empowering that, you know, we have to step into the gap where others can't or won't. You asked my my question about what brought me to my work was I was actually involved in, in an organization that provided services for people with, who hadn't learned to read by the time they were 24, so adult basic education. And if you look across our country and the way our government is structured, if you haven't learned to read by the time you're 24, there's no cost benefit that makes anybody say we should teach you to read. And yet there are organizations like the one that I was part of that we were committed that when that grandmother or that returning citizen decided now is the time that I want, you know, to learn to read, it didn't matter.

Alesia Frerichs:

We were gonna work with you on that. And I was the interim executive director for that organization for a while. And I remember when I was fundraising for it, I was like, oh my gosh. This population is so hard to fundraise for. And then I was like, but wait a minute. That's the point. That's my job is to raise awareness and that, you know, if if if we don't do this, it won't get done. And so I think there's a way to kind of, you know, you have to acknowledge the challenges, but I think there's also this incredible call to, you know, to make the world a better place that can really motivate a work force.

Alesia Frerichs:

I think those those are important things.

Kendra Davenport:

Well said. And I couldn't agree more. I think that's one of my favorite parts of of the nonprofit arena. Mhmm. And I feel very similarly because when I go to our affiliates, it is not uncommon for me to ask staff, well, when did you come to this affiliate? How long have you been here? And the response is frequently 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 15 years ago. But the enthusiasm among the newer staff who have been there 18 months or 2 years is is parallel. And I think you hit the nail on the head. It is the meaning and the purpose, and it's also, I think, hard to find, at least for me.

Kendra Davenport:

And I've talked with many of my for profit colleagues, and they they agree. In your role now, are I'm sure you're asked, you know, by junior employees or people just coming into the workforce, how do they become a leader? How do they advance professionally? It's something I'm asked frequently. And I'll tell you what my answers are to that after I hear a little bit of what you would say to someone asking those questions.

Alesia Frerichs:

Yeah. That's that's a it's a really great question. And first of all, I think I reflect back on my own experience, and, I had strong mentors. I had a mentor who also said, find strong female mentors, because I was in the tech sector. And I had opportunity, which is just sort of chance to a certain extent. Right? And then I had excitement and passion about the work I was doing. So I think if you have those things but, you know, to me, really being in a place that wants to see you grow and wants to mentor you is almost, in my experience, one of the really key ingredients because it it helps fuel your interest and your excitement. It develops your professionalism and and those kind of things.

Alesia Frerichs:

So we really strive at our our organization to to mentor, you know, and to be curious. So that's another piece. Yeah. We don't have a big professional development budget, but we're right on Capitol Hill. So let's work together to sort of talk about where do you wanna grow. I I always I had a mentor who said, always think about what you wanna put in your toolkit for your next you know, where you wanna be in your next position. And so we have those conversations and and really nurture that professional development, I think, really and and letting people know they're in charge of it, but how can we work with you on that?

Kendra Davenport:

I think we at Easterseals feel the same way. I love that response because I think while we don't have a formal mentoring program, we do encourage staff to to join forces and to identify a buddy, if you will, someone on the on the team that can help mentor them. But we also encourage them to to look for mentors in odd places, people they don't necessarily know.

Alesia Frerichs:

Mhmm.

Kendra Davenport:

I find people are are actually usually welcoming of the opportunity to mentor someone, and I think it makes a big difference. Your point about women is not lost in but I think I think the playing field is a little bit more level. But if you can identify a female mentor who's going to say, don't, you know, water down your personality so you won't be branded as aggressive versus assertive. You know? Do everything you can to avoid the the, the labels and the stereotypes and keep doing you. Seeing strong women, strong leaders like you in action, I think is is the best way for younger women to learn. And I do think, you know, I I'm a big fan of Indra Nooyi, and I keep talking about her on these podcasts because I I read her book and, her most recent book, and I I just see so many similarities. And some of her advice is just keep putting one foot in front of the other and doing you and not listening to all of that. Is there something that you were told by a mentor, some piece of advice that has stuck with you throughout your career and which you rely on?

Alesia Frerichs:

Oh, that's another good question. I've got lots of advice throughout my, throughout my journey. I think the other piece of advice that's really good is to keep things in perspective. Right? And so, you know, as a leader, I think it's really important for us in particular to be kind of assess where we are and understand, okay, maybe this isn't where we wanna be, but it's okay. And we're gonna get to where we need to be, you know, particularly when those unexpected, I mean, COVID is an example because, you know, we had to sort of stand up processes and be calm and react and make everyone feel comfortable, but that happens you know, there's a lot of times where when things, you know, the a big project you were expecting to get doesn't get landed or, you know, something like that. So I think it's really important to, you know, just help kinda keep that perspective and and help everyone. You know, we we have an expression, you know, well, no one's died, so let's move forward. You know what I mean? It's kinda like, okay.

Alesia Frerichs:

This isn't the worst that could happen.

Kendra Davenport:

I know exactly what you mean. And, but way back when, maybe 20, 30 years ago, early in my career, one of my good friend's sisters worked for the Campbell Soup Company in sales. And her expression was, we're just making soup here, folks. In other words, you know, nobody's dying or it's just soup. And I that always kinda rings in my ears. But that leads me that was a nice segue. Thank you for teeing this next question up for me. Leads me to ask you how you stay buoyant.

Kendra Davenport:

I think sometimes, and I'm speaking right now thinking of all the plates I'm juggling today and have been this week, last week, going into the next week. It can be very difficult, I think, to maintain your balance and feel full and not depleted or mentally tired. And I'll give you an example. Last night, I was spent. I had been in Philly. I drove home to Virginia. I was packing. We're having we have painters throughout our house, and my husband really didn't want me to come home.

Kendra Davenport:

He kept saying, you know, don't you need to be in Chicago? Like, do you really wanna come home to the house? So it was just, you know, as my mom used to say, all hell's a poppin' at the house. And we we went out to dinner, calmed things down. I packed. And then I had a few minutes, and I had the laptop out. I was working, and I closed the laptop. And I said, okay. I'm done for tonight. And he looked at me and he said, could we now just go run through these things? And I I thought, oh my gosh.

Kendra Davenport:

No. We can't. I'm going to, you know, lose it here. I can't take one more thing. And I must have said it, Alesia, three times to him, and he's such a good sport. I said, no. I don't I don't think so tonight. No.

Kendra Davenport:

I really don't wanna talk about this. And then finally, I was like, I have nothing left. There is nothing in the tank. Let's pick this conversation up tomorrow or preferably, you know, on the weekend. But I think I think realizing, you know, where you are that you need to fill your cup again, and I love that expression. How do you do that? What what does because I have a couple things I do. I have more than a couple. I have a lot of things I do to replenish my fortitude, my patience, my enthusiasm.

Kendra Davenport:

Are there things that you do that you can share with our audience that keep you buoyant, keep you on an even keel, and help you manage the the million things?

Alesia Frerichs:

So I actually think the first thing is to be vigilant about staying buoyant. Right? Knowing the warning signs, because it's actually not necessarily about volume. You know, it's not just like looking at my calendar and saying, well, I need to block off an hour a day. There's many things that can kinda trigger that, and and and sometimes activity increases my buoyancy. So I think for me, it's being very self aware of what's you can start to feel the fatigue. Right? I think it's at least for me, I can start to feel the fatigue. And then I have to ask myself, okay. How am I gonna take a step back? I have some very simple things.

Alesia Frerichs:

I'm a major morning person, so I always really try and be done with my work by 6. Like, if I look at my laptop after 6, I'm up at 4:30, so I get my time in. But if I look at it after 6, it kind of ruins my evening. But I think, you know and then and then, you know, obviously, I I I love to run, I hike, I'm I go for

Kendra Davenport:

a walk every day. So I the self care is important to me, but even

Alesia Frerichs:

if you're doing that every day, it's a it's I I actually do meditate because that's actually what helps me is I can tell you know, sometimes you just get to that intensity level inside where you're like, okay. And this is more than what 8 hours of sleep or run is gonna do and just being really intentional. But for me, it's that intentional journey of channeling my energy because I'm energetic, and so sometimes buoyancy become become too much intensity. And so it's kind of like

Kendra Davenport:

Again, I can relate, and I think many many leaders are that way. I think we tend to start our days early to maximize the day. And I've spoken with a number of people just like yourself who say, I get up at 4:30 or 5, and I I resemble that remark as well. But like you, by the end of the day, you know, there's a limit. I'd I'd say because of the time difference for me, it's more like 7 o'clock, but that's Yeah. I don't I don't even feel I'm bringing my best self to conversations or emails at that point. So, if it's wrote, if it's things I just have to do by wrote, okay. I'll do it.

Kendra Davenport:

But but I think carving out that time is important. Is there something that you utilize, a template or a trick or a tip you can share with our listeners about how you how you make the most or maximize your day? Is there something, in other words, that you do work wise? Some tool you use to make your day, more organized or make your actions more effective to record them, anything at all.

Alesia Frerichs:

Yeah. So I try and divide my day into 3 things. So I have the list. Right? And I'm sure people do this too, and it's kinda like, you know and then if the list is too long for it to get done, then I, like, then I call the list. But I really like, what's short term that I've got to get done today? But if it's more than 3 hours, then the list is too long. And I've either got to get it off my desk or move it to another day. So, because we're, you know, we're involved in strata in a strategic plan like everybody, and you you can get really consumed by the day to day, and I think that's a a big dangerous danger sign. So that is really and then, a large chunk of our work is, you know, obviously, I'm sure you're the same too, is kind of relationship development and really kind of who are those key partners and what does that cultivation look like.

Alesia Frerichs:

And then I do have reading time. I really try and set aside. I'm I'm actually energized by reading when I can read things and sort of gets me thinking in different ways, and really making sure that I have have time for that as well. So I actually intentionally look at my calendar. Some days I'm better at it than others, but that's kinda how I start my day, which I I think a lot of people do do. And then I sometimes do at the end of the day and say, okay. What went wrong What am I not gonna do tomorrow? So, those are yeah. Time management is biggest.

Kendra Davenport:

Yeah. I think we struggle. I think we all struggle with that, and I love your analogy and description of how you break your day into 3 parts. I think that's that's interesting. I haven't heard that, and I might try that. You also touched on reading. I usually do this later in the in the each episode, but since you went there, I'd love to know because I'm a I'm a voracious reader. I read a lot.

Kendra Davenport:

I read everything. I read everything from work related stuff to a lot of biographies to Right. Political stuff. I read The New York Times every day. Maybe not all at once, but throughout the day, I catch this, that. And the other thing, is there a particular book you've read recently or are reading that you could recommend to anyone in in the professional world, professional book? Or if not, is there fiction you're reading that you really like that you recommend?

Alesia Frerichs:

K. So I'm like you too. I've always got, like, you know, several books by my bed. I've got the audiobook. I just I love to read, and I do read the paper as well. So, I read when I came on to my job, 2 books that I know everyone has read, but I highly recommend was The First 90 Days, really good. And I give it to all my senior leaders because it it is a very good book to just sort of remind you, don't come in and think you know all the answers, but and, you know, how to approach sort of assessing the position. And so I thought that was you know, that's an old older, well known book.

Alesia Frerichs:

But, when I came into my new position, I reread it, and I was like, oh, yeah. And so now I 2 thirds of my team is new, my, leadership team since I came on board and have recommended that book to everyone. CEO Excellence by, I think it's Carolyn Dewar. Did have you read that one? Mhmm. Yeah. That is good. And and then, you know, one of the books that really just changed my life that's or not changed my life, but I found so powerful was the sum of us by, it's s u m. Yeah.

Alesia Frerichs:

So that was one that I had recently read, and I'm I'm not sure if you're familiar with that book, but, those were I've heard

Kendra Davenport:

of it. I haven't read it. Oh. I haven't read it.

Alesia Frerichs:

Highly recommend it. And if you're into audiobooks, she reads it. I'll find out her her name. And she has a beautiful voice. It's it's a powerful book.

Kendra Davenport:

I'm writing this down as we as we talk. But as I said, if if and I'm due audio too because I just sometimes get frustrated with reading or or, you know, I'm on a plane or whatever. The lighting is dim. So, My Life in Full is Indra Nooyi's book. If you haven't read it, I strongly suggest it. I love it. I'm good. Well, listen to it.

Kendra Davenport:

I'm I listen to it. And hearing her talk, hearing her laugh, I just find her so so interesting. The other book that that I read a few years ago and which really has influenced the way I manage and the way I help teams attack projects is Atomic Habits by James Clear. And it's really about the the aggregation of marginal gains. In other words, that's a fancy way of saying baby steps add up Yeah. To big steps over time. Mhmm. And it's a he his analogies throughout the book are tremendous.

Kendra Davenport:

I've read it, and I've listened to it. And I I highly recommend listening to it. So those are those are

Alesia Frerichs:

2 things. Well, thank you.

Kendra Davenport:

2 things. Alright. Last question for you is, what is something about you we can't Google? What's something that defines who you are that the general pub that you can share, that you wanna share, that we can't find out

Alesia Frerichs:

by Oh, that is a good question. Well, my husband and I just love to hike. So we are big hikers and we, have an affinity for hiking in Europe because it's so dag on civilized because, you know, they have little it's easy to get to the national parks and they've got little restaurants on the top of the mountains and so we, spend a lot of our time hiking and getting out. It's another way to restore.

Kendra Davenport:

So nice. So nice. You know? Yeah. I spent a lot of time on the continent of Africa, throughout Africa in a previous previous role. And I can remember visiting South Africa with one of my team members, and they were taking me on a on a tour, and we were in a car. And we were going around the the edge of the coastline, and we were very high up, and there was no guardrail. And I just said out loud, I wasn't even thinking, I said, you know, I just find everywhere other than the United States is not as safety conscious as we are. And the whole car burst out laughing, and they were like, okay.

Kendra Davenport:

How old are you, Kendra? And I said, well, there's no guardrail. There's nothing here. So when you said it's civilized in hiking, I thought, okay. Yeah, it is. It's different. It's definitely different. But, no, I I love being outside too. And, sure you've hiked out by me because we live in the same area.

Kendra Davenport:

I live out in Northern Virginia out, at the end of 2 67. So way out in Percival, and we have great thinking around us.

Alesia Frerichs:

Old wreck.

Kendra Davenport:

Great. Yes. Great dirt roads. Yeah. Yeah. So terrific. So before we leave, is there anything you want to share about Lutheran Services in America? Anything you you want to be sure people know before we conclude?

Alesia Frerichs:

Yeah. I think, you know, we are, like I said, such strong partners in over 1400 communities across the country, working with people from all walks of life. And I think just really, and working with large number of community partners and just, you know, when I go places, people always say, oh, I love the Lutherans. I just didn't realize there were more of them. Right? And so I think what's, you know, what's great is I I I want people to, you know, to to to look for a Lutheran. A Lutheran organization. We're we're we're in so many different communities and in such strong partners with health care and, you know, our city and state providers and just, you know, working to make the the world a better place and advance health and opportunity for all in would really you know? So think of think one of our our organizations if you get the chance.

Kendra Davenport:

Absolutely. And where can they go to learn more about Lutheran

Alesia Frerichs:

Services? Right. We are at, www.lutheranservices.org.

Kendra Davenport:

Terrific. This

Alesia Frerichs:

has been

Kendra Davenport:

such a pleasure. Thank you, Alesia, for making the time and for being so candid with your responses.

Alesia Frerichs:

Kendra for the opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Kendra Davenport:

Now on to ask me anything. So what do you do if you're a leader experiencing burnout? This is a great question, and I just talked a lot with Alesia about this because I think leadership is inherently prone to burnout. Leaders, that is, are inherently prone to burnout if they take their role seriously and they work hard. I was thinking about that today because I just have an awful lot on my plate most days, but I absolutely do today and yesterday. And so I shut down my laptop late last night. I got up early this morning, went to the airport, opened the laptop again, worked on it until I got on the plane, worked on something some more, got to Chicago, opened the laptop again. You know, it just continues. And I think at a certain point in the day, if you're not careful, that that builds up.

And you never wanna become so tired because of your own schedule and your workload that you become frustrated or burned out or you can't bring your best self. So you replenish. You need to be aware of of that fatigue as our as our last guest, Alesia Ferrick said. You need to be aware of that fatigue. And to combat it, I think there are really simple things. You can meditate for 15 minutes. You can take a walk. You can get something to eat.

You can switch off and and read a book, listen to something, do something different. Maybe it's just taking an hour out of your day to paint or to, bake or to cook or to shop, to do something you enjoy, to exercise, to listen to a podcast, to just sleep or just sit in silence. I don't think there's enough silence in our our life, and it can be very cathartic. When I'm home, one of the things I do when I really just wanna come down and get centered is take a bath. I I think water is very cathartic. In the summer, I jump in the pool, I spend time with our animals. Animals are also terrifically cathartic. And study after study proves that people who live with animals for whom animals are a part of their life are much more grounded.

They're happier. They live longer. And they they combat the the early stages of dementia just by having that relationship. Check-in with your kids. I mean, there's just so many things, and I think they're unique to all of us. But I think exercising those things, exercising those parts of your mind in the midst of the barely controlled chaos is what helps you sustain. It's what helps you, keep going in the face of, you know, an awful lot of work or or continuous challenges. The other thing, and I think we don't talk enough about this, is is learning.

Learning can be very empowering, and it can help fight fatigue because you can learn. And that's one of the things I love about this podcast is having the ability to get inside the minds of leaders and ask them what they do to become more efficient, what they do to organize their day, how they stay buoyant as we're talking about right now, and the the tricks and tips and tools they use to declutter and to focus, but also to stay engaged and to reduce burnout. And I think they're unique to everyone, but they're also similar. Right? And I think the the the similarity or the the running theme is noticing, is being vigilant, and staying aware that you need to push back from the desk and engage your mind in a different way. So I think that's it. That concludes our episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review. Like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to join us in the next episode as we discuss how we can all get on board with Transparent Leadership.