Episode 6: Vilissa Thompson

Episode 6 Show Notes

In today’s episode, our hosts Erin and Lily are joined by Vilissa Thompson, a disability rights consultant, activist, and social worker. She is also the Founder of RampYourVoice, an organization that promotes empowerment, education, and self advocacy for disabled people. Today’s episode is extra special because it is the last episode of the show’s first season all about dating and relationships and it will air in July during Disability Pride Month!

Erin and Lily begin today’s episode with their “Ask Us Anything” segment. Don’t miss their advice on when to meet up with someone when starting an online relationship! It is important to remember that there is so much more to be shared with someone in person than you could ever do just by talking online. Shifting gears, Vilissa shares her own experience navigating the dating world as an activist and social worker. She often notices people’s lack of communication. This is something she is quick to call out and end a relationship over if no improvements are made. At this point in her life as an activist and black woman, she does not want to feel like the teacher in her friendships and relationships. While she can absolutely be supportive and understanding, she never wants to feel like someone’s parent. Without setting boundaries, she has found that it can be easy to accidentally fall into this role with a partner. Everyone should feel able to care for our own selves without overwhelming our support system. Not being able to do this welcomes resentment within our relationships.

Next, they unpack the idea of “settling” into a relationship. Vilissa believes that we should not compromise on whatever it is that we desire, as long as it isn’t harmful. We should all believe that we will find someone who values us for our whole selves. Being accepted by someone for who you are is the bar minimum, not something which should be held on a pedestal. There is a big difference between settling and choosing comfort. In light of Vilissa’s article discussing the reason she has chosen to be childless, she offers her thoughts on family planning. Her choice not to have children has nothing to do with her disability. It is okay for us to constantly be evaluating what we want our lives to look like and not make decisions only to please others. Vilissa loves children and is an advocate for them, but she knows that she doesn’t want to have children of her own. IN closing, Vilissa shares that, to her, disability pride means being joyful.

Learn more about Vilissa Thompson and RampYourVoice.

Transcript

Lily Newton:

Welcome to Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong.

Erin Hawley:

A podcast by disabled people for disabled people.

Lily Newton:

But if you're not disabled, stick around. You might learn something new.

[Music Intro]

Lily Newton:

Welcome to another episode of Everything About Disability is Wrong.

Erin Hawley:

Today we have a guest, Vilissa Thompson. She's a disability rights consultant, activist, social worker and creator of the #DisabilityTooWhite. She's also the founder of Ramp Your Voice, her organization that promotes empowerment, education, and self-advocacy for disabled people. So welcome, Vilissa. Thank you so much for being here.

Vilissa Thompson:

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me on.

Lily Newton:

This is an exciting episode because it is our final episode of season one and it will be airing during July, which is disability pride month. So very excited for this to be the disability pride episode. Just to kick things off, since this is our final episode of the first season, we're going to do things a little differently. Normally we end the episode with what we call our Ask Us Anything where we answer questions from our listeners who email us in and we just decided we would start off the conversation with our Ask Us Anything because it has to do with dating and relationships, which is what we're talking about this whole season.

The Ask Us Anything is do you think meeting an online relationship in person as soon as possible is necessary for a successful relationship? I think they're wondering about the urgency of meeting in person and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, both of you.

Vilissa Thompson:

I think it is important to meet. I wouldn't say immediately, but maybe once you both know that you're in this thing and this is something that you want to see where it goes and if you want to be exclusive and have titles of what you want to have, meeting in the first couple of months would be helpful just so that you can know the interaction face-to-face and not just online. Even if you FaceTime or text, that in-person interaction could tell you a lot. So kind of coming out of a situation, I feel like I would wanted to have met sooner to kind of know what I figured out after we met.

Erin Hawley:

Yeah, definitely. Because even if you talk to somebody every day online, it's so different in person and it's like you're sharing a different personality online than in person. I do think if your mission in a relationship is to eventually move to an in-person relationship, I do think it's very important to meet soon because from personal experience, I think that if I had met this person sooner, I would not have wasted five and a half years in a relationship. Shade.

Lily Newton:

Shade.

Vilissa Thompson:

I love how we're on the same page about this. I think it's really hard, particularly when you're talking about disabled folks to where traveling is hard for some of us to do, so you do rely being online to make your connections. But like you said, Erin, it's just some things you really get in person that you don't get online, no matter how often you talk, whatever modes of communication you do, that in person presence tell you a lot.

Lily Newton:

Definitely, and we've spent so much time this season talking about ableism on dating apps and people that just are not the way they seem on the internet. I think you can really get to the truth of who a person is once you have that initial meeting. Because even if things have gotten very smooth and they're not awkward online at all, you still have to get through the in-person awkwardness, which is its own thing. I mean, for me specifically being autistic on dating apps, I feel like I have such a strong internet persona that is one of my masks and it's really hard for me to be authentic just via DMs or just via starting out. I just feel like I'm trying so hard to be cool on the internet that I'm not my realest self at all because I'm not cool. I'm as awkward as it gets. I think that it goes both ways for me is that I need to meet in person because I need to see if you actually like my real self too. Internet dating is its own ... it's just its own beast.

Vilissa Thompson:

It is. It just feels sometimes very discouraging when the honeymoon phase ends and then you realize, "Oh, this is who and what I'm dealing with."

Lily Newton:

Yes, absolutely. The next question I'm going to ask comes from me because one of my best friends is also an LCSW and she's a therapist and we're constantly talking about the way her activism affects her dating life because she always wants to get deep right away. What's your experience been as an activist, as someone who's creating movements and is a social worker? How does that kind of affect your dating experience?

Vilissa Thompson:

It definitely impacts it. One of the issues that people do that I noticed is just being bad at communication. Like horrible. That was the main issue in my past relationship when I realized that my partner could not communicate well and it went outside of his own disabilities. This was just him and his past relationship traumas that he was trying to bring into our relationship, and these are things that I picked up on easily because as your friend who's a therapist, that educational background is brought into my relationships. It's how I show up as somebody who is very intentional about being a good communicator, a good listener, a good supporter, as an individual, then as a partner. I think that the thing that I have found is that a lot of the people that I have dated, those who happen to be men, are just very bad at it and it's something that I cannot ignore, particularly the older that I have gotten. It's something that I am quick to call out and then when things don't improve, dip out, which is what I did in my last relationship, was I broke up with him because it's just not something that I wanted to put up with as a disabled woman, and I shouldn't have to put up with when we're well over 30 and we should know how to communicate and then be self-aware.

Lily Newton:

I think that's really important to know when you've hit your limit, especially ... I mean, this is my assumption of everything I know about you, but as a disability activist, which is a place where a lot of people in the general public are not informed on what's going on, as a Black woman, as a social worker, there's so many areas where I feel like you could be kind of forced to be in a teaching position. How do you balance that in a relationship setting?

Vilissa Thompson:

It's something that I don't want to do that labor. I think it's unnecessary labor and it is tiring, particularly being a Black woman just in general and then all the other components of who I am when it comes to my identities and also professionally. It is a lot to hold and it is unfair to expect people to teach you these things. I think that people are not aware of the burden of what it means to have to hold that kind of space whether you want to or forced to or expected to, and it's not something that I'm interested in, not at this stage in my life. I think something I had to learn is I could be understanding, I could be supportive, I could be caring, but I'm not trying to mother, I'm not trying to parent and that's not my job. It's not something that I want to do in relationships. It's not something that I want to do in friendships. Unless I'm being paid, it's not something I want to do professionally with colleagues who may not be Black or [inaudible 00:10:01] that expect you to teach them things. It's something that I have had to be very intentional about and hold a firm boundary on. That boundary does exist in all the facets that I do engage with people in regardless of the relationship type. It's just something that I really had to learn because if you don't hold true to those boundaries, you will find yourself doing that incredible emotional labor and that can allow you to be resentful. That's not something that I want to be in my relationship. I don't want to feel resentful towards my partner because they're not fully equipped with the tools that they need for themself first before they even able to be a partner to me.

Lily Newton:

I think what you just brought up is really important, that are you acting in ways that would invite resentment into the relationship? If you feel like you have to teach people things or you have to constantly remind people to respect your identity, there's no way you can do that and not invite resentment into that space. I think that's just a really, really great point.

Vilissa Thompson:

Because I think that the resentment is kind of sneaky and it's a little too late when you kind of realize that that resentment or that regret has taken root. It's something that I have had to be mindful ... and again, I know we're talking about romantic relationships, but this goes into friendships as well. Thinking about the type of labor that you are exerting for friends who may not be always emotionally available or present for you. I know that for me, one of the reasons that I had become so aware of this is because I'm always their responsible friend, kind of the mom in the group. That gets very tiring because we're all over 30 now. At least in my friend group, we're all over 30, we all have some life experience and we should all be figuring out how to care for ourselves without overwhelming our support system.

I realize that being in that [inaudible 00:12:11] is not something that I want to be in in my friendships. So that has naturally transitioned into being aware that I don't want that parenting role in my relationships, in my romantic ones. I think that for me, sometimes when you are an emotionally giving, empath, however you want to define it person, you have to be conscious of the ways in which you're showing up in your relationships and be aware if people are, whether intentionally or unintentionally, taking advantage of that and how does that make you feel? That's something I had to be aware of because that's my responsibility to be aware of, and if it's something that I don't like that is happening, then it's on me to say something and then make the necessary shift to get a more balanced situation if it's possible. If it's not, then maybe reevaluate that particular relationship as to whether or not it's sustainable for me overall.

Erin Hawley:

I know in previous relationships I've always ... not always, but I felt like I was their mom, what she said, and that's just really not ideal obviously. But it also makes you feel bad about yourself, at least I did because it was like, "Am I settling? Am I in this relationship so I can feel powerful or feeling like I'm ..." Not better than them, but I'm more mature, I'm more this. To me that was really ... I have to look at myself and see is this what I want for myself? Is this fair to them? This is a while ago, but now I've realized you can't be everything to somebody and you can't be their mom or dad or whoever.

Lily Newton:

As a person who feels like I am out of control in every social setting I'm ever in, I think that there have been times that I have dated and specifically leaned towards emotionally unavailable people because it felt like, "Well, I have something to teach them now." I just think what both of you said about no, that's got to be my own boundary to make. I have to decide if that's something I want to do. I hope that there's at least one person listening to this who is a self-identified mom friend of the group and is rethinking like, "Did I put myself in that role or was I put into that role?"

Vilissa Thompson:

I think that it's one thing to be a good support to your partner. We all should strive to be that, but when you're realizing that you're always giving and they're always receiving and whatever that you may be receiving back doesn't compare to what you're giving, that's where the imbalance is starting. In relationships there are going to be times to where you may give more because you see the need that your partners have to where you want to fill in the gap for them, and there should also be moments to where your partner can give to you when you're [inaudible 00:15:57] or just have a lot of emotional things going on or just life stuff is happening. It should be this natural ebb and flow to where there are times where you may do more, there's times where they may do more, but the interaction shouldn't lean heavily into only one direction.

I think that's the thing that I've had to realize is that I don't want it to lean unfairly in that one direction. Like some scales to where it's going to be kind of up and down on either one, but it should always come to a middle eventually at some point. It shouldn't just lean one away and not eventually kind of get to that middle. I think that's what I've had to realize is am I exerting more time, energy, resources, money, whatever than this person and what they're able to do, and is it of the same value? Even if it may be different in what they're giving, is it still of the same value as what I'm doing? I think that's something I had to realize as well about when does that imbalance take place? When does that shift happens and how do you recognize it?

Erin Hawley:

I think even when you're having those realizations or when you take those lessons away from previous relationships, I felt like ... while I was in those relationships I felt like I lost myself and I think that in my current relationship we don't have that dynamic. I felt like this is me. They're seeing me as who I am, not me in a role that I should not have been in.

Vilissa Thompson:

I think you make a great point. Relationships should enhance you and not shrink you. You should feel like you're able to bloom in a relationship just as they're able to bloom. If you feel like you are withering, then how are you going to bloom in that type of environment?

Erin Hawley:

Exactly.

Lily Newton:

That's a very great visual. How do the two of you avoid settling or what does that word mean to you? Because it feel like it's a pretty charged word in terms of dating and relationships in general.

Vilissa Thompson:

No one should settle. Whatever that you desire in a relationship that's not harmful or hurtful to yourself or the person or persons that you're interested in, go for it. If you're of color, you're expected or sometimes just downright told that your expectations are too high. If I am too much for somebody, then that means that that's not my somebody. I think that when you settle, you're settling for so much less than what you deserve. As a disabled person living in a world to where society is always telling you that you deserve less, well, you deserve less money you deserve, deserve to receive benefits that are insufficient to keeping you out of property, the whole settling messages that disabled people endure include dating and include everything else that we interact with in our society. As disabled folks, it's a very hard reality to break out of and not feeling like you have to settle because "Nobody wants to date me because I look like this or my brain works this way or my body does these things."

It's like that's not true. You will find somebody that will like you for you. I know it sounds so cliche, I know that it sounds like "I hear you, but it's hard out here to find somebody who wants to engage with you in the ways that makes you you." But it is true, as cliche as it sounds. You would never have to settle for the person that values you for your whole self, not just for the parts that they like the most. I think that's how I look at settling. I never have to settle for less than what I know I deserve as a person, particularly as a disabled woman, and anybody that expects me or treats me like such isn't worth my time.

Lily Newton:

I think that's super important and also the idea of that accommodation and especially accessibility accommodation is not the best it can get. I guess the best way for me to explain that is that I ... early on in the relationship I'm in now, I remember having a moment of sensory overload that led to a meltdown and afterward having those ... my partner, he was so wonderful and cared for me and helped me get through that and take care of my needs and afterward just thinking, "Wow, he put up with that or he thought that that was okay, that means he's the greatest person in the whole world"," and I'm glad that I caught that thought and just thought him accepting me for me, this part of me that is not going to go away, is a part of who I am is not behavior that's enough to put him on a pedestal. That's the bar, that's the minimum there and I think that that is just really important.

As we're talking about the concepts of settling and how it has to do with disability, I think there is a level of someone treating you as a full human and making sure your relationship is accommodating, that is not the ceiling. That's the floor. Let's start there.

Erin Hawley:

Totally. Early on in dating, I was very like, "No one's going to want to date me," and it was hard. It is harder if you're disabled to find somebody. It just is because of ableism and assumptions. Even when you do find somebody, people on the outside don't think it's real and they don't think that it's legitimate, that it's a real, true loving relationship. I think as a disabled person, you kind of internalize that sometimes. For me, settling means loving myself first and understanding my reality is not what ableist people say it is. If I'm happy in a relationship and I'm getting fulfillment and joy at a relationship, that's not settling. Settling is saying to yourself, "I don't like this, but this is all I can get." Which is not true. But it is hard. Ableism is a lot. Even if you say I'm such a strong independent woman, you still internalize some things. It's hard to get out of that mindset sometimes.

Lily Newton:

I think there's an interesting line there between settling as a negative versus choosing comfort as a positive. I think that in my younger more toxic eras, there were times that I thought that if something was comfortable, it wasn't good. Love had to be risky and intense and scary, and learning the difference between something being intense versus something being intimate and intimacy can come in comfort actually and that's different than settling. Choosing the path of least resistance doesn't necessarily ... I don't even know what that phrase means. Choosing your comfortable path does not necessarily mean you're choosing the settling path and I just think that that's an interesting point you bring up, Erin, there.

Vilissa Thompson:

I think that's a really good point because people feel that if your relationship doesn't have the drama, then it's boring. I know for me, the older I get, the less drama I want in my relationships. If all your relationships have drama, then you need to evaluate what you're doing here. Is it you, is it them, is it both of you or however many people may be in this relationship? I think that we have to be mindful of the messages, kind of like what Erin was talking about, messages that we may get as women, fem identifying people. There are also message us in the media about what makes a relationship look stable versus not, and people think that intense love or moving too fast to where that you don't really know each other very well and not just sometimes slowing down and getting to know each other.

Because yes, you may have strong feelings for somebody. Love is one of the emotions that makes no sense. I think in that you still have to have sense as to how you're engaging and you can pick up certain things that may be a green flag, yellow flag or red flag. I think that's something that I realized, is that I want my relationship to go at a pace that works for both of us and don't feel like we have to make it messy or make it rush to make it real, because that doesn't make a relationship real or sustainable or healthy or satisfying.

Lily Newton:

Absolutely. I think that's a question that my younger self would've definitely wanted to have, the "Is this fast pace moving at this pace because they don't want me to catch something?" I never even thought about that. That's very helpful. I was going to move forward a little bit on the ... so one of the natural things that gets talked about as we're talking about dating, relationships, marriage, whatever happens, is family planning and I love the ... is article the correct ... the piece you wrote about my decision to be child free has nothing to do with my disability. I love that piece. Any of our listeners, if you have not read it, read it.

It's really great just because I think I relate very heavily as I've entered my late 20s and have had the thoughts of not wanting to have kids, the combating thought that I hear in my head is like, "Well, I don't want people to think I didn't have kids because I'm autistic." Then I'm like, "So I'll have kids just to show them I can and I'd be a great autistic mom." Then I'm like, "Well, maybe spite is not the best reason to bring a child into the world." So I would love to hear even more than what I know from the article, your thoughts on that. I think it's just such an important topic.

Vilissa Thompson:

I think the whole point that I wanted to write that was to give a different narrative. Because you're right, when people hear you say that, "Oh, I don't want to have children", they do assume that it's because of whatever disability or disabilities that you have. For some of us, that's not the case. Yes, I do know disabled folks who don't want to have children because of their disabilities. They don't want to pass along. They will feel guilty if they're a child resented them for being disabled. There's a lot of heaviness for some disabled folks about having children. But it's also on the other internet spectrum, both of us who are like, "You know what? I would be a great mom if I wanted to be that, but it's not a life choice that I want to make." That's what I wanted to convey in the article is that some of us, like many nondisabled folks, choose to not have children because we don't want to and having children is a choice.

In the article I mentioned how I feel like children should be wanted, because they are a joy and an incredible responsibility. Children are the most permanent thing you can do as a person, having children. For me it's like, "Whew, that is a lot. I don't know if I want something that permanent in my life," and I think it's okay. I think that as disabled folks get closer to your 30s like you are and those of us deep in our 30s like I am, it's okay to really evaluate what do I want my life to look like? That's what I discussed in the article. Over the course of the pandemic, I really decided like, "You know what? As much as I would be a good mom, that's not something that I want to do and that's okay." I think the messaging about being child free, whether you're disabled or not, is so negative that people feel like you're being selfish or it's your biological duty to have children and you should want to populate to earth and all that jazz.

It's like why? Why should I want to do something so permanent to please other people or their value systems or their way of thinking? I'm like children are not something that you just have haphazardly. Children are a serious responsibility and I think that we don't consider that as people who can have kids. I think that's what we see the realities of. That's something that we don't have hard discussions about that are important, so that if we do decide to have children, we're able to care for them in the ways that are sustainable, that are loving, that are safe, that are empowering and not deprivating to them, to their development, to their growth, that's not creating unnecessary trauma for them. These are the things that if you want to have children, you need to think about. It's not a game. Being a parent is not a game. It is a full-time job. I'm not saying all this to scare anybody, but these are the things that you think about. When you seriously think about "Do I want to have kids or not?", these are the things to take into consideration because you are responsible for somebody forever. If we decide that we don't want to have kids, that doesn't mean that we are literally child free. We're going to have kids in our orbit in some way, shape or form and decide what kind of role do you want to play towards those children in your orbit, whether they're your friends' kids or you have nieces and nephews or other siblings. If you do community work or your teacher or whatever ways of engagement you have the kids, how can you be a supportive adult to them to where you are a good foundation within their orbit? Those are the things that I really thought about in my decision that I covered in the article that I wish more people thought about whether they decide to have children or not. Just think more critically about that.

Lily Newton:

I think that's one thing that people should ask themselves, is "Am I even a supportive adult to the kids in my life already?" before deciding to have ... I think that's super important and I love the emphasis on taking the time to know what you want because I mean, just in this conversation it's been established that you like and respect kids enough to advocate for society to be better for them and you would make a great mom and you still are choosing not to because you don't want to and want is important. I think that is ... the way that wanting in our society is so tied with selfish connotation, it has to be taken out of the equation because it's actually selfless to ask, "Do I really want this?", because children deserve to wanted all the time.

Vilissa Thompson:

Even when they're annoying, you still want to want them on those hard days. I think that's the thing, the desire to have children should be a want and not a pressure to fulfill other people's ideas on what your life should look like.

Lily Newton:

A want, not a should. Absolutely. I think that what you wrote about just the way we treat kids, that is always a really important topic of conversation for me because I do find that sometimes in Autistic community spaces, you'll find that's where there's a lot of people who like detest children because let's be real, children can be sensory overload. They're loud and sticky and don't know that ... so people don't like that and I get that. But the one thing that I'm always trying to get people who have that kind of disdain for children, especially in the neuro community to understand is that a lot of the kids that are being the loudest, making the biggest fuss are just Autistic kids themselves. I think that there's a level of just ... I wish there was more community care. I think thank you for writing both of those pieces. I think they're narratives that you don't hear enough in general public.

Vilissa Thompson:

I think that to the point that you're making, folks have to realize that you may have been that annoying kid as an Autistic [inaudible 00:35:19] . I think that's the thing is people forget how they were treated as kids, because I remember in that article about being hostile towards kids, I remember the way I felt when I saw adults talk about the disabled kids who was in the accessible classrooms, special education classrooms. It weirded me out as a kid. I'm like, "They're a kid like me. They may communicate differently, they may move about differently, but they're still a kid and it's not their fault." Even then I didn't understand the harshness that the adults had. It is kind of disheartening to hear some disabled adults not fully assess that, "Hey, some adults may have been talking about you like that and you need to be aware of how you talk about kids."

Because the thing I always remember with kids is that they're experiencing everything for the first time. Everything for the first time, and that's overwhelming or overloading within itself. Some of them may be experiencing a thing with no full guidance and support from the adults in their life for whatever means and for whatever reasons, and they're just really trying to figure it out. When I think about that, that gives me the patience to deal with kids. Just knowing that they're experiencing things for the first time or the first few times where I have had many years of experience of things. I can show them compassion and understanding that they deserve to have.

Lily Newton:

I love that. I think that's just so important. In our last ... well, we've got 10-ish minutes left of recording, one topic I mentioned at the beginning, but this episode is one, last episode of season one, but two, coming out during disability pride month. Just curious, what does disability pride mean to you?

Vilissa Thompson:

To me, disability pride is being joyful. I think that when the month comes, we talk about the things that we're still fighting for the community, which is important, very important. But we don't talk a lot about things that are joyful. That kind of leads to the pride part of the phrase, that leads more to the positivity. For me, I want to focus on the joyfulness of what it means to be disabled and to have community and to share some of those messages that we talked about before about what society projects upon us and us having to figure out that, "Hey, that's not my reality. That's the thoughts and opinions for other people. I don't have to hold those things." It's the releasing of those negative connotations. I think that's what disability pride is for me, is to really lean into the pride. Leaning into what makes us so dynamic and unique and powerful and beautiful and creative.

That's what I want to focus on for disability pride. Also, in a little bit of selfishness. July would be the 10th year of me doing this activism work. I'm celebrating 10 years of doing this work and seeing it bloom and grow in ways I wasn't expecting. Disability pride for me in July will have a twofold approach. Of course, enjoying the community and those that I know and our history, what makes us incredible, and also celebrating this body of work that I have established and just reflecting over the last decade and looking forward to the next.

Erin Hawley:

Well, congratulations. That's really awesome.

Vilissa Thompson:

Thank you.

Lily Newton:

Yeah.

Erin Hawley:

I've been following you and have been your friend for a while and every time you do something big, I'm just having a celebration in my head because your work is so important and really everyone has to see it and experience it, because especially as a Black woman in the disability space, you don't ... as your hashtag says, disability too white, and I think you're awesome. That's it. You're amazing.

Vilissa Thompson:

Thank you, Erin.

Lily Newton:

Absolutely. Congratulations. Echoing everything Erin just said. Mega congratulations on a decade of this work and thank you for a decade of this work. I think that everything you said about pride is so important and it can be easy ... because there still are so many spaces where disability is not talked about at all, it can be easy to feel like, "Oh, disability pride month is starting to get more traction. People are talking about it," it could be easy to use the spotlight that comes from disability pride as a way to highlight all of the ableism and barriers and all of these things just because of the spotlight. I think it's crucial to the heart of disability pride and to especially activists like yourself who are working so hard to take this time and celebrate and celebrate joy and celebrate the beauty of the disability community.

I think that that's so important during disability pride month to just remember that this fight is not ending anytime soon. This work is not ending anytime soon and it is worth it and not only just worth it, but necessary to celebrate and to show that disabled joy is fricking beautiful.

Vilissa Thompson:

Definitely. Definitely. I appreciate the kind words that both you and Erin said, particularly Erin, because I remember when we first met each other, which feels so long ago, when the space really started to get bigger and we were all trying to find each other. So just thank you always for just being there.

Erin Hawley:

Oh, of course.

Lily Newton:

Erin, what does disability pride mean to you?

Erin Hawley:

Disability pride means not being ashamed of yourself and finding strength and joy in yourself and your community. Not just yourself, but other people who are also disabled. It's about us. That's it. It's not about parents of disabled people, unless you're disabled as well, but do you know what I mean? It's about us. You don't see that a lot out beyond the disability space. Even organizations or companies or whatever focus a lot on families and this is our month in July. That's what it means to me, is centering ourselves.

Vilissa Thompson:

I love that. Taking up space basically. You need to take up space.

Erin Hawley:

Exactly.

Lily Newton:

Yes, absolutely. This has just been such a beautiful experience of taking up space, all of these conversations, this one included. I feel so lucky to just get to be a part of just space about us, for us, by us. It's great. Thank you so much for being on this episode. Erin, I love you. Thank you so much for holding my hand as I've crossed into the disability sphere and learned about what it means to accept my disabled identity. I just am so grateful for this whole season. Vilissa, I can't even express how grateful I am that you were on this final episode of the season. So much gratitude and in the spirit of disability pride, so much freaking joy.

Vilissa Thompson:

Yes, yes. We need it. We need it. I'm so glad that you all asked me to be a part of this. I'm honored and I think this was definitely the conversation that I needed today.

Erin Hawley:

Yes.

Lily Newton:

I am so thrilled for you. Have an amazing disability pride month and thank you so much for being on this podcast. Thanks to our listeners who have been here since the first episode, and we're out.

Erin Hawley:

Thanks for listening to our podcast.

Lily Newton:

If you liked what you heard, be sure to write a review, like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Erin Hawley:

Join us next time when we discuss more reasons why everything you know about disability is wrong.