Episode 37: From Wall Street to Changemaker: Tiffany Yu’s Story of Purpose and Possibility

Episode 37 Show Notes

Tiffany Yu is a disability advocate, entrepreneur, and author of "The Anti-Ableist Manifesto." She started her career at Goldman Sachs before becoming a leader in the disability community.  

After acquiring a disability as a child, she struggled with loneliness and self-doubt. Over time, she turned her experiences into advocacy and founded Diversability, a community that celebrates disability pride and fights stigma.  

She works to break barriers, share personal stories, and create more welcoming spaces. Through her efforts, she shows that disability is multifaceted and that working together can create real change.

Connect with Tiffany Yu on X and her website. 

Transcript

Lily Newton: Hi, listeners, and welcome to another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong. Today on the show, we have Tiffany Yu.

Erin Hawley: Tiffany Yu is the CEO and founder of Diversability, a three times TEDx speaker and the author of her new book, "The Anti Ableist Manifesto."

Lily Newton: Tiffany started her career at Goldman Sachs before becoming a disability advocate, entrepreneur, speaker, and author. Welcome to the show, Tiffany. We are so excited to have you. This is a much anticipated episode. We've been so excited to have you as a guest.

Tiffany Yu: Thank you so much for having me on.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. Thank you. I'm really excited too. So before we get into it, we're gonna do our audio descriptions. So I'll start. This is Erin. I have red hair and blue eyes, and I'm sitting in my wheelchair and, just hanging out in my bedroom. So I'll pass it to Lily.

Lily Newton: This is Lily speaking. I am a white passing Indian woman with half brown, half blonde, split down the middle hair, Cruella De Vil style. I'm wearing my usual black turtleneck with my necklace that I will fidget with throughout the whole episode. And behind me is a bunch of great disability advocacy books, which Tiffany's will soon join the lineup. I read your book digitally, and now I need a hardcover to get back there. But you can go ahead and give your description, Tiffany.

Tiffany Yu: Sure. Hi, everyone. This is Tiffany Yu. I am a Taiwanese American woman with shoulder length black hair, and I'm wearing a green top sitting next to a copy, a hardcover copy of my book, The Anti Ableist Manifesto, which has this orange gradient cover, and I'm joining you from my place in Los Angeles.

Erin Hawley: Awesome. Thank you. So before we get into other questions, the first question that we always ask is, the name of our podcast is everything you know about disability is wrong, and what do people get wrong about you? Oh.

Tiffany Yu: You mean about me in general or about me related to my disability? Anything. So I guess I'll give you two answers then. About me in general, I think I'm goofier and more ridiculous than people realize. I think there is a public professional persona of this ex investment banker who does a lot of work in corporate workspaces. And, and and, yeah, I just love I call it PFJ, play fun joy. And, related to my disability, I think what people get wrong is just the assumptions that they make of what a person who can only use one arm can or can't do.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. Totally. And you started Diversability, which I think is so awesome. Can you tell our listeners what Diversability is and why you started it?

Tiffany Yu: So for those who are new to my to new to me, I was involved in a car accident at the age of nine where I acquired both apparent and non apparent disabilities. I permanently paralyzed one of my arms known as a brachial plexus injury, and much later I'd be diagnosed with a mental health disability, post traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD. I share that context because for about ten plus years after I became disabled, I had internalized a lot of shame, internalized a lot of ableism and stigma around and had a very negative self image and low self esteem just trying to navigate the world and now my, and now this newly disabled body. And I share that, I wanted to share that because I do think we have different experiences if you are born with your disability or if you acquire it, even even different stories if you acquire it at a young age versus if you acquire it when you're a teenager or later in your life. So I started Diversability essentially to end the cycle of social isolation for disabled people. Now that's what I say now, but initially I was really just curious if I'd be able to find other people, other disabled people who didn't think that the way I navigated the world was weird. And at a baseline level, I just wanted friends who got it. I would consider that now a term coined by Mia Mingus called access intimacy, people who understand your access needs.

Tiffany Yu: But diversability started in 02/2009, so this is 12 after I became disabled as Georgetown University's first ever disability student club. And I think it's important to just share that a couple years before starting this disability club, I had co founded a Taiwanese American club at Georgetown. And so what I knew how to do was I knew how to start clubs. Or at a baseline level, I knew how to start communities. I didn't know, starting the Taiwanese American club. Prior to that, I didn't really identify as Taiwanese American. I had internalized that my success was rooted in assimilation and erasure of my race, and I can see a lot of parallels there to me and my own journey with my disability identity. So, so yeah, so fast forward, I guess, sixteen years now, we've been around since that student club.

We then emerged in New York City as a meetup group, a disability meetup group. And then when the pandemic, start started in 2020, we transitioned everything virtually. But in addition to ending the cycle of social isolation, I'm also really focused on what I call the shame to pride transformation around a disability identity. And one thing I think about is when we first started Diversability, I was like, oh, we're for everyone. But there are people who are disabled who may never wanna feel proud of their disabilities or may never claim ownership or identify, and that's okay. And so I had to get really specific that perhaps Diversability as a community may not be for them. But if you are curious about what it would look like to be the wholeness of yourself in your liberated state, then check out our community. So we got a community.

We host events. We run something called the d 30 disability impact list honoring disability leadership. And we're hoping that through our social channels, we can also help amplify and elevate research and advocacy actions available. That was a lot, but I wanted to make sure that I included the origin story because not only can I not believe that we have been around for sixteen years, I think back to that 02/2009 time frame a lot and how much pushback I received that creating a disability community was too radical? And, someone even told me that they didn't think Georgetown was ready for something like that.

Lily Newton: That's so wild. No. I I I appreciate the the full context of it because I think it really does show the beauty of that community. And I think that, the community and everything you've written about it really hammers home this idea of that, you know, disability is not a monolith. And when you've met one person with a disability, you've met one person with a disability. And I appreciate in your book, you talk about like even meeting people with the same disability that you have same title, life was lived differently. And I think that that, is an aspect that, like, relates back to the idea you brought up in answering the first question, this, like, assumption. I think assumption is the word that gets used most to answer that question is like just people's assumptions and this idea of wanting to put disability into a box.

And I love Diversability's like refusal of that. Like, no, you're not it's not a box because everyone's experience is the same. I know for me that has been important in my shame to pride journey. When you talk about shame, if if you don't mind me digging into that a little bit, what were there any moments in your experience, gaining people who you had that access intimacy with, gaining people who understood what you're going through, where you started to identify, oh, I have shame about this, like, about who I am? So I think that there are I've found times when I'm sitting in shame and not even realizing it.

Tiffany Yu: Oh, that is such a good question. I actually I actually thought you were gonna ask how I started to unlearn that shame. So maybe I'll answer the question you didn't ask, which will provide some context. But I think I actually think that you said it perfectly, which is we don't we don't know that we're sitting in the shame. And in 2020, when it was a start of the pandemic and many of us were in our homes, Diversability at that point in time, we were only doing in person events. So I then shifted to looking at social media and even looking at something like TikTok, which I had heard some rumblings about but wasn't sure. And I kept thinking, what is something visual that I can do on this video platform? And I started and, actually, because now we were at home, I live by myself, so I was like, I should probably learn how to cook or make something broader than salads and pastas and soups. And if that's all you wanna make, that's fine too. So I had a whole series where I was learning how to crack an egg with one hand. And and, actually, I think I probably made five or six versions of that video because people would give me different tips of, like, hit it on the counter or put it in a bowl or drop it in a pan. Anyway, but what I realized was and the reason why I wanted to share that is I would open the vid I would open every video with context by sharing, hey. One of my arms is paralyzed.

I'm trying to learn how to crack an egg with one hand. And what I realized even in that statement was if I look back at even some of my old if I go back into the weeds on Instagram and I look at how I took photos, my arm was always hidden and my hand was never seen. It was like I had figured out a way to, you know, shift it behind my, behind my hip or put it behind someone else or even the way I'd hold my hands together would be hiding the hand. Right? And so I don't know if it was necessarily me being in community with other people. I guess, in community online, because many of us are chronically online and and that's telling me. And and and in some ways, I'm just really grateful to have social media didn't exist until I was an adult, but now that we have it, we're able to find each other so much quicker. So so all of a long winded story to just say, I think it was the introduction of wanting to push myself into creating content as a way to expand my advocacy that made me go back and look at all of the habits I had formed to try to hide my disability, which essentially was the root of of a lot of my shame. And then I watched a TED talk by Brene Brown, and she said, shame festers in secrecy, silence, and judgment.

And so then I took that and I even made I even made a TikTok about that one sentence in itself. And I said, what are the areas of my life that I'm giving Shane more power because I'm able to hide my arm in a photo? Or I'm able to not, I'm a sent in and for me, like, the silence and the secrecy was the way that my shame really got more power. So it was like, the best way I'm going to force myself to not give shame that much power is by putting it front and center in a place that is subjected to unsolicited opinions on the Internet, which I know is something that upset people may fear sometimes.

Lily Newton: Yeah. It's that's a little bit of trial by fire there to on the Internet. But I I really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you for answering that question because I think that, something it taps into is this concept of that, like, you don't have to be complete in any of your journeys, whether that's, like, acceptance, unlearning shame, unlearning ableism to start creating your content, whether it's content or whatever it is. I think that, like, something I had a fear of for a long time was, like, well, maybe I'm not a a perfect disability advocate yet, so should I even call myself one? Mhmm. And doing this podcast has been really helpful in terms of meeting amazing people and understanding that like we all have these journeys, we all have shame, we all deal with internalized things, don't wait for them those things to be gone before you start doing the things you want because doing the things you want is usually where you start to unlearn those things. So I really appreciate that perspective. Thank you for sharing that.

Tiffany Yu: I guess I'll put just a small asterisk in it and say that I feel I feel really grateful to have a strong support system so that if my way of unlearning shame is putting something out on the Internet, I know that there are other places that I can turn to for support in case something goes awry? And and I think that's been something that has been important to my sustainability as an advocate. And and even I I think I think one of the things I had to unlearn too was I don't need to have a hot take on everything that is happening in the disability space. And and I do think there was a period of time, like you said, about, like, what does it look like to be an imperfect advocate? But how do we be an advocate in community with so many other movers and shakers? Right? And so if there's something like and so for me, I think about, like, micro advocacy a lot. Like, what are the things if I don't know what to say, that little share button that looks like an airplane triangle is just right there, and I can amplify something else that someone has put a lot of time and research and effort into. And that that can't necessarily be the only thing we do, but that's a start to say, okay. I don't I don't know what to say or I don't have the right thing to say right now, but I do know that there are other people I can turn to trusted voices that I'm willing to, share them have them share and come onto my platform. Absolutely.

Erin Hawley: Thank you for saying that you don't feel like you have to have an opinion on every single topic in the disability community because I see that a lot on social media, not just, like, the disability community. But I feel like disabled people tend to be, I think, more chronically online because of the accessibility of it compared to the outside world, and building community on the Internet is a lot easier and more accessible. But I do think there is a fear in some people that they're gonna say excuse me. They're gonna say challenging or do the launching. And I feel like having that grace for people to make a mistake is fine. And I feel like having that space that's open like that makes it even easier for people to get involved in the community.

Tiffany Yu: Yeah. And and I do wonder if we are giving people that space to make mistakes, and, and I've had my own experiences. I, I guess the way I look at it is I, I I there are parts of my life where I wanna learn out loud. And so I will learn out loud, which means things will show up on social media. And in some ways, I feel grateful that our community trusts us enough to let us know when we've made a mistake and and and is forgiving and gives us gives us the grace. But I also look at how quickly sometimes cancel culture doesn't doesn't give people the the space to make mistakes. Right? And then and then that fear comes in. And sometimes, right, it's and this is privilege.

Privilege says it is easier to opt out than it is to learn out loud and try to make a mistake. And and part of part of this book, The Anti Ableist Manifesto, was really about how can we make disability advocacy accessible for everyone? Because I want people who are not disabled yet to join us. I want the people who enjoy audiobooks and electric toothbrushes and jacuzzis and elevators and luggage with wheels who are appreciating our access features to also appreciate us. And I I think that because yeah. And I don't know if you have I guess this is me asking you for a hot take. It's like, I I don't I I know actually, I heard Nicole Kidman say this. She said, I know what actions I can take to make a difference because she was talking about working with women directors. She said, this is what I know how to do.

And, and then she kind of tied it into the economic imperative too, which is like when the film does well, it signals to the industry that more. But she was saying, I know what I can do. So what I can do is give people grace and write a book about, hey, learning should never be about shame. And please, I wanna make this digestible for you. The chapters are so short. I think there's one chapter that's even three pages. There are reflection questions for you to digest. There are suggested scripts and action items in there for you too.

But but, yeah, I I I don't know if we've gotten better about giving people more grace around making mistakes.

Erin Hawley: I don't think we have. But Yeah. I well, I am seeing more grace given, but it's still not where it used to be. And that to me is upsetting because I know there's a lot of people out there who maybe don't consider themselves as having a disability, but they do. And then having this, like, cancel culture, however you wanna phrase it, is scary to them. And they're they're afraid to explore their identity in a safe space.

Lily Newton: Yeah. I think that's such an interesting, like, point that what is a safe space when you are a, like, marginalized group in front of the world on the Internet. Right? Because I think that there is some level of this is why we in past episodes when we've talked about representation, like, the topic of representation is so tricky because, there's a lot of weight on every or a lot of pressure on every, disability story to get it exactly right because there are so few disability stories being made. And I think that that, similarly, we're still I mean, in my world, it feels like, disability content is everything. But I know that there are a lot of people who on the Internet are not encountering disability content that often. So there is still, a pretty intense pressure to, like, get it right. And I think, Tiffany, what you have done is, the exact right response to that, which is not to try to get things right, but to try to help other people easily understand. Because the more that and I I completely agree.

Lily Newton: I think your book is an incredibly accessible read, and it, it does something that we talk about at Easterseals a lot where it takes, disability language, which is some for some reason, kind of oddly gatekept, and just makes it easy to understand for others. Then we that's that's difficult to do. There's a lot of, like, acronyms when it comes to services or, like, just lots of jargon, and I think your book is a really great intro spot. So I think I I want listeners who want to venture onto the Internet, if that's where they're hoping to make their mark, to feel empowered to, as Tiffany put it, learn out loud, but also to know that there is there's a need to get like, do some work first. And so I think Tiffany's book is a great place to start to ensure, because I I know that for myself, I've just talking to so many cool disabled creators and writers and athletes and actors through this podcast. I've learned so much, and there has been moments where I look back on things I've said in old episodes. And I'm like, oh, I think I learned I think I learned out loud pretty loud there. But I I like having that space.

I appreciate it. It has helped me grow. So just a reminder that you can make things without them being, like, viral.

Tiffany Yu: I I get in some ways too, you know, I think about what you were saying. And I read this in Shonda Rhimes' book, Year of Yes, about the FOD, like the first only different. And one of the things she says is that the FODs, we all have the same weary look in our eyes because the room we don't have any space to make mistakes because everyone is watching. Right? And so, I do talk a lot about how I think in our culture, we have this obsession to be the first, but hopefully we don't stay there for a long time. Right? And then we find community. And so, you know, Lily, you asked where are those spaces, those safe spaces where we can learn? I hope diversability can be one of them if that's, if that's what you need. And that's why I kind of come back to having a support system where, if you are someone who does wanna do something publicly, just making sure that you have, I don't know, a soft place to land, privately.

Lily Newton: Yeah. Absolutely. And having people you really trust as well is important. I think it's super important to have people in your life that, will take maybe a call out that you're getting and turn it into a call in and, help because, you know, processing making mistakes sucks. So that's that's the truth. And, but I think that that space, the processing making mistakes, being willing to own up to them is and holding the capacity for forgiving someone after they've said something you deeply disagree with. That's how we continue to make these spaces, I think. Yeah. It's a it's a it's an interesting place, the Internet.

Tiffany Yu: And I also think, you know, sometimes there are just mean people on the Internet, but I also think sometimes there are well meaning people who who like us enough to hold us accountable for something that we did. Again, hopefully not in a malicious way, but but I guess I try to look at it as like, oh, this person felt comfortable enough to tell me this, and let me think about let me apologize and think about what action I can take to to potentially repair.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. I think that's a really important distinction to make too is, like, there's definitely malicious people out there who are just saying the worst things to just get attention or be a jerk. I don't know. But there's also people who just made a mistake. And I feel like sometimes the Internet lumps them together, which is just not a way to get around creating safer and better spaces.

Lily Newton: Yeah. And, I oh, I'm having a moment where my brain's forgetting exactly what I was gonna say. But I I'm gonna find it. I'm gonna find it because it was something I did wanna say. It was something good. Oh, there's such like, it takes a lot of care to call someone out in person. Like, I have found in adult friendship, it's the friendships where you you do have those difficult conversations that there is real love there. And that's a great, like, thing to remember If you're being told like, hey, this is your language is outdated, or we don't say that term anymore, or, this is an ableist thing.

I think that it's a great thing for people to keep in their back pocket this idea of, like, assuming benevolence and assuming, like, a a kindness to these callouts because that's what they would be in person. And, you know, there's also just the the the bad actors on the Internet that are there to do whatever. But maybe maybe that's a way to help even cope with the trolls on the Internet, though, is to be like, well, they're taking the time to comment on my stuff, so I must be important. Engagement.

Erin Hawley: I'm on vlog or whatever.

Tiffany Yu: And that doesn't invalidate that the mean comments still hurt your feelings. And and I don't I don't know. I don't know why we have to be mean to each other on the Internet or or in person. And even though, you know, yeah, I I kinda think about that that part too where it's like, oh, you know, it's really more about them and something they're going through, but then you're the byproduct of it. Yeah. And and that and it's totally valid to feel hurt by that. I mean, I will say in the beginning of my social media journey, I the number of comments I receive from people about my hand and they'd say your hand's useless, you should just cut it off. Mhmm.

Or they would do like the dinosaur emoji because I guess my hand looks like a dinosaur stands. And but it would come I mean, my first video that ever ever went viral got at that time, I think it was 1,400,000 views. If one if I ever saw 1,400,000 people somewhere, I would be totally sensory overload. But with 1,400,000 people seeing that, it meant tons of comments, you know? And and I had to take a a step aside because I was also just like, wow, Tiffany, you've been doing this work, like, visible in this space for ten years. And I I noticed myself, and I love something Stephanie Thomas actually said to me. She said, don't let people bully you into becoming someone you're not. But I remember I was so affected by all the comments for a small period of time that But I actually learned a new strategy. I don't know if I would totally recommend it, but it's called post and ghost, because you just don't know what you're gonna get with the comments sometimes.

So, if I'm like, okay. I'm here to educate or the purpose of this post is to to share a moment of joy, I'm going to channel that emotion into me, putting it out, putting that energy out into the world. And and sometimes I'll still look at the comments, but if it's really overwhelming like a post going viral, I I forgive myself and have compassion and say, hopefully, your community will step in and answer things if needed. Like, I just had a post from a couple years ago resurface, and people are like, why does she tie that bandana with her feet? And then someone else came in and they said, oh, if you look at her other video, she got into a car accident and she can't, she can't use one of her arms. And I was like, okay, now I don't have to re retell all of that all over again. All the context is there somewhere.

Lily Newton: Yeah. Context is such an interesting, topic when it comes to disability. I love the way you address it at the start of your book and that, like, we don't owe anyone our stories, but you are choosing to share yours. And I think that it's it's just an an interesting topic because there is that level of, like, yeah, wanting people to understand, especially in a world that has TikTok where exactly what you said videos from two years ago randomly resurface, and no one's watching everything in order. No one's watching the pinned video first. And it's it's just it's such an interesting time. And, in terms of, like, how much of your identity do you have to share? And because I sometimes find myself, like, laughing at myself in the way that I'll, like, slip into conversation that I'm autistic because it's not apparent sometimes. Sometimes it's very apparent.

But or slipping into conversation that, like, my mother is from India because I can tell that everyone in the room is assuming that I'm white because of how I look. And, like, those little moments of, like, hey. You need this context in re in, IRL is very is a different beast to handle than making videos or making individual pieces of content. So, how do you kind of, like, decide how much intro to give each piece of content at this point in your career where there is a book out there that has your full story?

Tiffany Yu: Oh, good question. You know, there were even people who were angry that I opened my videos that say, hey. My arm was paralyzed in a car accident. And then I stopped including that context, and then people were would ask the question again. And so, you know, I will say and and it's fascinating that we have spent all this time talking about content because I I've I've slowed or I guess I'm I've been more gentle on myself because I wrote an entire book and Mhmm. I do not have the same level of energy that I did to record video content as I did a couple years ago. So so I don't even know the last time I made content that was like that to me. I mean, I have I actually I actually just returned from the paraclimbing national championships, and I was the only one armed climber.

There are other climbers who climb with their arm and then they may be an amputee on their other arm, but they're still using their limb to climb. And and I guess one of my learnings from that was even though my arm is paralyzed, I am curious if there are ways that I can still use my injured arm to climb. But I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent to say that I guess in my journey of, you know, whether it's creating content online or meeting people in person, there is a ten minute version of the car accident, which you can watch. It's a TED a TEDx talk from 2018 where similar to you, Lily, I have I use out well, not similar to you, but you were talking about how maybe in the past episode you use language. I used to describe my disabled arm as my funny hand, and that's what I did in my 2018 video. I think of all my TEDx talks, that one has the most views, and I would not describe my body or anyone else's body as funny anymore. I'm I'm learning, but people are still seeing that video. But and back to your question, as you can see, I went on a little early.

Lily Newton: It's perfect.

Tiffany Yu: But I also have a one sentence version of the car accident too. So if I can think most recently, I was at a restaurant and, before the entree came out, I said to the I said to our server, hey, my arm is paralyzed. If it is possible, if they can cut the dish, in the kitchen before it comes out, that'd be really helpful. So so, yeah, I I think that's where the context comes in. I do also you know, I love this question about, like, how much how much do you share? And and I think back to growing up, most people that I grew up with assumed that my arm injury was from birth. Mhmm. And if you have read the book, I dedicate the book to nine year old Tiffany and my late dad. And I think part of people assuming that my arm injury was from birth in my own story felt like it did a disservice to honoring the memory of my dad.

And so that's why I personally have chosen to say, hey, my arm was paralyzed from a car accident because there was more to Tiffany becoming disabled in that that is important to me and how much I wanna honor of that story versus just saying, hey. My arm is paralyzed. And it could even be like, my arm is paralyzed, and then you make and then you come up with all these assumptions. Right? We're always we are I used to make this joke that I felt like my anxiety was like this Oscar award winning director because the the stories it would come up with were so vivid and real that it would win awards in my mind. Yeah. And and so I relate that to say, part of, I think, why we share context is how can we get ahead of the assumptions first? Because because even in this journey of wanting to get into rock climbing, first question was always, how do you how do you climb on a rock wall? And then you just stay with one arm. And then, you know, and and then it's like, how does, I don't know. Yeah.

I I I just think about all of the assumptions that we make that the the assumption that we make about all different people's types of disabilities. Like, how does a blind person dance with their body and their legs and their arms? You know? Like, like yeah. So so, yeah, I I think I think I haven't gotten tired of sharing the context because it's and and it can get tiring too. But but I think part of it is because I have slowed the content machine.

Erin Hawley: Mhmm.

Tiffany Yu: And and also now, like you said, now the book is out. And because of that, like, more people know, so I don't have to explain myself. But but even still, I mean, I even notice this is unrelated to disability, but kind of but related to context. Anytime I meet someone new, I will always say I will always remind them of my name even if and then they'll be like, of course, I know your name. But I don't know if you've ever been in situations sometimes where, you know, you've seen a face so many times, but maybe you don't know their name. And then after a certain point in time, it gets to a a point where you've seen them for enough times that it's now awkward that I'm just like, I'm gonna get ahead of that and be like like, hey, so good to see you, Tiffany. And they'll be like, I know who you are, but but, hey, what if they have forgotten?

Lily Newton: Yeah. There's like a saving yourself that kind of awkward moment by preempting that that I totally relate to. I do stuff like that all the time.

Erin Hawley: I love that, and I'm gonna steal it because I always forget people's names, and I think it's related to, like, my anxiety. Because if I'm if I'm in a meeting, all I'm thinking is, like, how am I gonna say this? What am I gonna say? What's gonna happen? In the meeting, I like names just fly out the window. So that is a really good tip is to say your own name first.

Tiffany Yu: Yeah. I mean, I I can remember. I used to have a podcast, and I would and I feel like we're totally going on a tangent here, but feel free to take us back on track. But I remember I would do a podcast, and I would ask the guest to pronounce their name. And then during the intro, I would be so nervous or something, and And then I would still pronounce their name incorrectly even after I practice saying it so many times. So, I don't know. Maybe a little bit of grace that that conversation.

Lily Newton: goes right back to the grace conversation for sure. Because there was I yeah. I mean, I think we are nuanced enough people to understand that getting people's name pronunciation is important and valuable, and you can mess up someone's name with no malicious intent. Like, those nuances exist. So I appreciate that. I wanted to say one thing about in your context answer, I'm so glad we did dive into all of this because I think it really hammers home that, the the complexities of disability in that there are no, like, hard and fast rules of how you should talk about disability, because of exactly what you just said, that your your context means something very important and different to you than someone else's context might mean, and it holds that space for your father, and that's so important for you to honor that. And I think that that is where it can get really dangerous to, like, think like, oh, well, you shouldn't have to explain. No one owes anyone their story.

Don't tell your story. No, you can do whatever is comfortable for you. So I really appreciate you saying that because it does show that each of our relations with our own disabilities are our own. And that is important.

Tiffany Yu: And and I coming back again to context, like I think about, I think about why, why you're sharing something, right? And and I have friends in the space who will say lead lead with what your access is, right? Focus on what the barrier is you're trying to address rather than the intricacies of someone's medical history, right? So, you know, if I'm at a camp, which I do mention in the book with other people who have brachial plexus injuries, we'll go into details about things that were going on, but all the only context I need to provide to the server is that I can't cut the dish with, I can't use both hands, so here is the access that I would benefit from in that situation. And so if you are someone who doesn't wanna be so out and proud about, out and loud about whatever your disabilities are, again, just focus on the barrier and what your access needs are in that particular situation. And I think I include the script in the book. It's the I would benefit from and then fill in the blank. And and I've done that exercise actually with a lot of people before I say, I tell them like, how would you complete this this blank? And some people would be like, I would benefit from working in a workspace that has dimmer lights. I would benefit from getting, an an agenda for this meeting. And I'm sure you've even had podcast guests before who prefer the questions that you're gonna ask before you start recording. Right? And so, even even with that, we don't need to know we don't need to know we don't need to know the deeper context unless someone wants to.

And I love the way that you named that for each of us, those those mean different things to us. And and if we have the the agency and the autonomy to choose when and how we wanna share and honor those things, like, I love that.

Lily Newton: Yeah. I think that's autonomy is just such an an important thing, especially, in for me, and I would I would venture to guess for others in that shame to pride journey. I noticed when I was being a lot more autonomous with my decisions instead of doing what I thought I was supposed to do, I was able to find a lot more pride in who I really was because I was being that authentic. Well, okay. I wanna transition a tiny bit because we have not too much time left and there's one. I I think your trajectory is really cool and the way you got into advocacy is, unique. And in the disability space, almost a tale as old as time the like stumbling into it because you had to and advocating for yourself and things like that. I wanted to bring up there's a quote from the start of your book that I really like.

And the first chapter, you're saying that much advocacy work looks like this, planting the seeds for work that others will take on in the future. Even if we do not achieve that original goal, it can bring about wins that we may not know for years to come. So I love that quote and I would love for you to share with our listeners and viewers what are some examples of what that kind of planting seeds can look like and have there been any examples in your life of seeing those seeds blossom much later when you expected the seeds to have died long ago?

Tiffany Yu: The person who first said something like that to me, I always gotta give credit where credit is due, is someone named Ingrid Tischer. I don't know if her name sounds familiar. She used to work at Dredef. And when I first moved to The Bay, she was just an incredible coconspirator and friend. And I bring her up because I was actually working on a project, an intergenerational project where you'd have someone of one generation interview someone of a different generation.

Erin Hawley: Oh, cool.

Tiffany Yu: Something Ingrid brought up was how it wasn't until I think she was seven years old that she had her right to an education protected. And we talk about the ADA generation Americans with Disabilities Act And for as long as I've been disabled, the ADA has been around and it's turning 35 this year. You know, it's in its in its mid. But but anyway, just wanted to honor that. And and she was like, I wonder if it's a millennial thing that you want or maybe I call it like the attention economy that we're currently in that we want results right away. And I share this near the end of the book, which to me are kind of what I consider like the unintended positive impacts of something that you did. And the quote that you read was about some advocacy actions that me and a group of friends were trying to take around getting getting a more neutral definition of disability that didn't, didn't necessarily use the word impair. I prefer impact.

I also even talk about in that chapter about how dis is associated with this and duo which essentially means that disability is another way of being or doing, which essentially it is. So I digress, small.

Erin Hawley: I love that.

Tiffany Yu: But, the example that I share is actually related to that twenty eighteen TEDx talk that I mentioned. And in that TEDx talk, the title of it is called the power of exclusion. And I share I share the example of being a nine year old kid returning to gym class after I became disabled and really not belonging in that space. And how how much that impacted me and and I think even recounting it now, I I still feel soft hearted of around around her and that experience and having to get dressed for that class every day. This is after I tell you I just went to the paraclimbing. I have rediscovered my joy of sport and adaptive sport in my own way. But a couple of years ago, I think two years ago actually, I went to a camp for people who have my injury and they invite doctors and families. And a pediatric hand surgeon comes up to me and he goes, oh I watched your TED Talk.

And I am someone who after nine years old and maybe some disabled people can relate, but I had, I went through the ABCs of medical treatments and doctors. I had physical therapists, occupational therapists, hand surgeons, shoulder surgeons, neurosurgeons, acupuncture. I don't even know if I said acupuncture already. It was it was a lot, and we talked briefly about autonomy. I do not felt like I had autonomy over my body, not in a in a harmful way, but I just didn't know. I didn't know. And and I also have compassion that at nine years old, it's okay to not to not know. But now I'm in my late thirties.

So but anyway, so pediatric hand surgeon tells me he watches my video and I shared all that context about the ABCs of the medical professionals because I turned to him and I said, hey, I actually have a difficult relationship, engaging or or with medical professionals just because of a lot of medical trauma that I felt like I was subjected to as a child. And he was like, oh, that's cool. And, you know, we just kind of coexisted. And then later he I think he was either speaking on a panel of other, other medical professionals or or he came out to me later and he said, I wanna let you know that as a function of watching your TED Talk and seeing that you didn't really have mental health support through your rehabilitation, we have actually added a mental health, a mental health professional to our rehabilitation team for kids who have brachial plexus injuries, who are going through their surgeries x y z, right? So oftentimes, at least for me growing up, there was so much fixation on the physical manifestation of my disability that there wasn't really much support about understanding what was going on emotionally and what was I feeling and how was I doing? So that to me felt like a seed planted that turned into that grew into a beautiful a beautiful thing that now anyone who works and he's a very celebrated pediatric cancer surgeon, very well known for people who work with, for people who have brachial plexus injuries. I had no idea when I recorded that talk in 2018 that a doctor would see it and think about how can we bring care, I could call it anti ableism, into this space so that kids who have disabilities can feel more supported as they're going through things they might not even understand. So that one was pretty cool. And then even just yesterday, I did a podcast interview with a friend, and and I only know him through his climate justice work. And he shared with me that after reading this book, he didn't realize that mental health disabilities like anxiety and depression were disabilities.

And he started having that conversation with his mom and now being more open about the ways that it affects him and the support that he's needing and contributing to a conversation around removing the stigma around mental health. So, I mean, and that was even just yesterday, you know, and and so I think about I think about that. And in a lot of ways in a lot of ways, I had fears around writing this book. Right? Because once it's in book form, you can take down a social media post. In book form, it's out there and it is subjected to even more unsolicited opinions than a social media post that has my face on it. People are reading the book who, unless they turn to the back flap and see my photo, may never know what I look like or who I am. But I'm reading this book because they were interested by it, but they are taking actions or it's shifting their views or they're realizing, oh, I can actually be a part of this conversation because I have a disability as well. And how do I how do I play a role in? Making my non apparent like shedding more light on my non apparent disabilities and that disability doesn't have one look, so.

So those those are some of the seeds so far. I mean, as we're recording this, the book has been out for five months and it has been. That has been my favorite part is seeing how and I don't know I don't know if I if that was an unintended impact. Part of it was, okay, I have this social media series. I am an educator in this space. How do we reach more people who maybe are not my first degree or maybe might not be able to see my content? But, hey, if you're wandering in a bookstore or your library, an orange cover may catch your eye. A provocative title may catch your eye, and and it was cool. I guess one other thing I'll say is I talked to a friend in Australia who told told her friend that she was talking to me, and her friend was like, oh, the orange book.

And I was like, oh, we've created such strong branding. And and I was telling Lily before we started recording that the book is launching in The UK, but does not have an orange cover. But once someone told me that the orange cover had such a strong association because at first I was changing my emoji colors. I went through an orange period and then I was shifting it to yellow for The UK. And I was like, you know what? People know the orange. The UK is yellow to red and has some orange in it, so I'm gonna stick with the orange. But but, yeah, it's been it's been cool. Every once in a while, I'll Google the title of my book and see what conversations people are having.

They don't even tag me, and you don't need to tag me. And, and then someone shared an article about the disability tax. There's a chapter on the disability tax, and the excerpt was shared in The Guardian. And they shared that article and then tagged their employer and said, hey. Maybe one way that we can address the disability tax is by including in our job descriptions, like, what type of health benefits we're including and this is in addition to being transparent about what the pay is and other things like that. And so so yeah, changes are happening and I may never know about them, but when I do learn about them, it reminds me that that all of our little micro actions together, those shares create this collective action that that makes that make things better. Because I guess even in reflecting on what Ingrid said to me about like plant the seeds, you may never see what plant it grows into, but be patient is in 02/2009. I told people I wanted to start this disability club and I wanted it to be rooted in disability pride.

And I cannot tell you the amount of looks, confused looks I got because people couldn't understand how a disabled person could be proud. Ten years ago, I knew I don't know if I knew any books by disabled authors, and maybe that was my own limited purview. But now I can. I mean, now I have so many friends. Andrew Gurza has a book coming out next month. Lachi is working on a book. Molly Burke, I think Alice Wong is working on her next book. Like, so many disabled authors putting their legacies and narratives out into the world to help contribute to making change.

It's it's pretty cool. So I have seen I have seen change. And even, you know, as we started recording, we were talking a little bit about Wicked and authentic casting and Maria Bodie as as Nessa Rose. And so it's it's all part of this shift. But if we're so hyper focused on the results, I think we will lose sight of the fact that there actually has been change that's happening.

Erin Hawley: Definitely, there's been change. Like, in the nineties, eighties, nineties, it's a totally different world for people with disabilities. But, yeah, I do wanna ask one final question. You talked about how there's a lot of books out there by disabled authors. Can you give our listeners or viewers, another book that you would recommend? Oh.

Tiffany Yu: Is it a book by a disabled author? Yeah. I mean, I always have to recommend Haben by Haben Gurba. Books that are in my queue that I haven't read yet, one is called datable. It's about dating with disability and chronic illness. Shane and Hannah Burkhaw just came out with a book called Interabled. Mhmm. They're on my bookshelf. But even, like, how exciting is it that there are more books than I can read at the moment?

Lily Newton: That is so exciting.

Tiffany Yu: And and one of The UK events I'm doing is with an author named Liam O'Dell who wrote a book about, like, research in the autism community, and the name is escaping me right now. But but yeah. And then, Frances Ryan has a book coming out next month. Two two not too many. Never never enough books, but, Hoppin is a good one. Disability Visibility. I did see someone comment on one of the social media posts about other book recommendations. But I guess I'll share.

Pippa Stacy actually wrote a blog post recently, and she has a book. I think it's called, like, how to live with chronic illness or or something something related to chronic illness. And she put a list together of some of her favorite books by disabled authors. So, and I do mention this in my book too, is sometimes just doing an online search can help you find what you need. So, you could search for books by disabled authors. If you are someone who loves supporting independent bookstores, you can search for disability owned bookstores. I have my own personal list of about 10, I believe, that I have found and, and buy your book from there.

Erin Hawley: Awesome. Can you can you share that list with me? Yes. If you have a greater chance. Okay. Awesome.

Tiffany Yu: Do you want me to share it with you? I can email it to you after. You mean the list that Pippa put together?

Erin Hawley: That you put together.

Tiffany Yu: Oh, of the disability owned bookstores? Yes.

Erin Hawley: Yeah.

Tiffany Yu: And that was also I think that was actually a post from libro.fm. So I'll I'll send those to you. Cool.

Erin Hawley: Okay. Cool. Awesome.

Lily Newton: Man, this is such a good conversation. I gotta say I've been sitting quietly for a second, which I rarely do. But it's because I I had to I had to swallow a few times to not get choked up. You're talking about, mental health supports being put in for, like, just that that seed growing is really gorgeous. I was a very unwell teen, and I say it often. I I do everything I do for unwell teens. And so that's that's really beautiful. And I, just wanna point out to you that that I love that your book is dedicated to nine year old you.

And I think that there's these seeds that we're talking about, obviously, Tiffany is an incredible advocate who has done lots of things, and her seeds are, you know, a TED talk and these amazing things that she's done. But the the the earlier seed there was that struggle that her nine year old self like, that you went through with those doctors. And, like, that you honoring that struggle and including that conversation in your work, that was also part of what led to all of this. And I just think that that's an important thing because maybe if you're listening to this, you might be in the midst of the struggle that someday could become the seed that becomes your your blossoming plant. So I just I just wanted to say that because I think that is, our our pain can have power.

Tiffany Yu: Can I say something about nine year old Tiffany?

Lily Newton: Please do.

Tiffany Yu: So I dedicated the book to nine year old Tiffany and actually nine year old Tiffany is my why. I think about the world what the world looked like when she became disabled and I'm trying to build and fund and support the things I wish existed for her. Haven't made much more forays in the medical realms, but maybe maybe some medical more medical professionals will watch my talk, and they have more influence, in in that and way more education needed education in that space. But, someone said to me, they said, Tiffany, while you dedicated this book to nine year old to nine year old Tiffany, it's not for nine year old Tiffany. And I said, oh, that's so fascinating. Maybe there will be a future book that is for nine year old Tiffany. But this past weekend, I met, one of the blind climbers. Her daughter was there.

She's and her daughter's 11. And she, and the daughter, the 11 year old and her mom listened to my audiobook and then found me the next day and I got to sign the hardcover copy of my book to her mom and this 11 year old. And I never thought that an 11 year old would read this book. And 11 is close, close ish to nine. And in some ways, meeting her this past weekend made that dotted recent revelation I've had recently because I was creating this distance by saying this book isn't for her. But if I only wrote one book ever, I wanted to make sure it was to her. And now meeting, you know, some future version of my younger self. Reading the book and getting so excited to meet me and signing, like, after I signed her book, she, like, hugged it as she, and her dad was there.

And and and, yeah, I'm like, oh, that is a seed that's planted in future version of my younger self, who now I'm curious. And, you know, I wrote to nine year old Tiffany, I can't wait to see who you become and I can't wait to see who this girl, who this 11 year old who engaged with this material is gonna become and how how she takes that on, not only with her, you know, her disabled mom. I mean, her disabled mom and this is an elite athlete. Keep an eye out. Maybe you'll see her in LA Twenty Eight. But, but, yeah, how cool for for this 11 year old to be so so in disability community, you know, this para climbing community and getting to meet all of these different people and wanting to learn wanting to learn more and engage with this work.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. I love that so much.

Lily Newton: That's absolutely beautiful. I'm so happy we're ending on this because I, it's, people listening to this. I I can't wait to see what you do. Yeah. I just think it's a really, beautiful thing for us to end on because I think that, in in that, shame to pride space, I think that there's those little versions of us deserve just a lot of love from us right now. And, I love that we I love that you actively do that. So thank you for sharing all of that with us. Thank you for coming on our show, Tiffany, that, like, we could have recorded for three more hours.

This is so wonderful. And, listeners, check out the links in this, episode. You'll have links to her book, everything else. Tiffany, you wanna, this is our moment of give you the mic to share. You want people to follow you on a thing or where they can find you?

Tiffany Yu: Yeah. The best place is tiffanyu.com, my first and last name Com. And then while you're there, there is a link to book stuff if you want to figure out ways you can engage and support the book. And if you wanna follow me on social media, all of my links to my social channels are there too.

Lily Newton: You wanna follow her on social media. Thank you so so much. This is such a wonderful episode. I love everything we dove into, and I, can't wait for it to come out. Listeners, it's the end of the episode. It it came out already. But thank you again. Seriously, just a joy to get to chat with you.

Erin, as always, thanks for co hosting with me. I love you. And, tune in next time for another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong.

Erin Hawley: If you liked what you heard, go ahead and subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.

Lily Newton: Thank you to our listeners. And as always, thank you to Easterseals for giving us the space and resources to share such authentic conversations from within the disability community to our listeners.

Erin Hawley: And I'll see you next time for another episode of everything you know about disability is wrong.