Episode 35: Entrepreneurship, Education, and Knowing Your Value with Onyinye Udokporo

Episode 35 Show Notes

"Just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not real."

Onyinye Udokporo, CEO and founder of Enrich Learning, dives into a conversation that’s both eye-opening and deeply personal, exploring the differences between UK and US disability cultures. From how each country approaches accessibility and support to the ways people talk about neurodivergence, it’s clear that culture shapes the disability experience in ways we don’t always realize.

A big theme in this discussion is the power of language—how the words we use can either create understanding or reinforce barriers. Onyinye shares why being intentional with language isn’t just about being polite; it’s about making the world more welcoming and accessible for everyone. This conversation is a reminder that small shifts in how we speak and think about disability can make a huge difference.

Connect with Onyinye Udokporo on LinkedIn and on her personal and company website. 

Transcript

Erin Hawley: Hey, listeners, and welcome to another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong. Today on the show, we have Onyinye Udokporo, and we are so excited to have you. Onyinye is the CEO and founder of Enrich Learning, an online education platform and tuition center. She oversees the company's operations, managing online classes, personalized one on one lessons, and programs. Beyond that role, she's a neuro consultant, a content creator, and an international public speaker. Her work focuses on education, entrepreneurship, and social mobility. We are so excited to have you on the show. Welcome.

Onyinye Udokporo: Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be talking to you.

Erin Hawley: We are so excited to get to talk to you.

Lily Newton: Yes. So welcome to the show. Our first question is always the the name of our podcast is everything you know about disability is wrong, and what should people get wrong about you?

Onyinye Udokporo: Such a great question to start with. The number one comment that I get, which is a total incorrect perception of disability is, oh, you don't look neurodivergent, oh, you don't look dyslexic, or you couldn't possibly be dyspraxic because I'm quite sporty. I love my fitness. I play tennis. I'm in the gym four to five days a week. And so there are these perceptions that people already have of certain conditions, and I promised complete and utter honesty, on my episode. I also think it's to do with my race. I I come from for for those who are listening, I am a black woman, and I come from a background where it is still considered a taboo to have any form of disability.

Onyinye Udokporo: Things are improving. If I'm being completely honest, we've come a long way, but we still have a very long way to go. So anybody with disability doesn't really talk about their disability, especially when it's an invisible disability, which is why I get the comment of, well, you don't look disabled or you don't look as if you are neurodivergent.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. That's a, definitely a response we've gotten in the past, but I do think and, obviously, I don't necessarily know what's going on in The UK, but I know we've been we've talked to other guests and just talked about, in general, in The US, there's a kind of lack of, like, believability, especially when black women are saying, just believe me on this. Yeah. And I think it's really important that we that intersectionality is brought up because you are not disabled without being black or black without being disabled, and I think that's really important. And I I I know being Indian, at least, like, the the cultural level of what I can talk about with my family versus what we're ready to talk about. It's just a a very important thing. And, also, pausing because you, reminded Erin and I that we're a little out of practice, and we forgot to do our audio descriptions.

Erin Hawley: I mean, I already started hers a little bit, but I'll I'll go, and then we can dive back into the questions. But I'm Lily speaking. I am a white passing Indian woman with half blonde, half brown hair split right down the middle and green eyes. I'm wearing black and my gold chain that I will fidget with throughout the whole up the whole episode. Erin, you wanna do yours?

Lily Newton: Hi. I'm Erin. I'm wearing a pink shirt. I have red hair that you can't tell in this lighting. I have blue eyes, and I am a white Latina.

Erin Hawley: Amazing. And you wanna go?

Onyinye Udokporo: Hi. I am Ininye. I am a black woman with brown eyes, and I have Beyonce blonde braids. And, yeah, very happy to be here.

Erin Hawley: Amazing. We'll probably you know, you'd think we'd edit that back into the beginning of the episode, but we probably won't. We like to keep it as realist, whatever. And, I forgot I forgot to write in all bold audio description, so my brain just went right over it. But I'm I'm glad that's where we started. I think that that conversation of you don't look reveals so much about where we're at in the culture of understanding disability.

Onyinye Udokporo: Yeah.

Erin Hawley: Because it goes it goes the other way as well. Whereas, like, Erin, I know you've been told, like, oh, I I wouldn't expect you to do x y z, which is the other side of that. It's just

Lily Newton: Yeah. Like, oh, you have a job. Oh, you have friends. I'm like, yeah.

Onyinye Udokporo: Like, just You expect you not to have friends?

Lily Newton: Yeah. Just, like, basic Wow. Life things, I think, I don't have access to, which is really ridiculous.

Erin Hawley: The the friend expectation, I feel like, does reveal a lot about, especially, like, American culture and the way that disability for so long has been just fully tucked away. And that was something I was really excited to bring up with you on the show, being an advocate in The UK. We talked about this a little bit when we talked before the episode, but I'd love to just chat with you about the differences that you have noticed in disability culture and the kind of, like, accepting of it. Not necessarily, like, politics and policy because there's not much we can do changing that right now. But Yeah. I think the culture is really interesting.

Onyinye Udokporo: So first things first, I love America. I love visiting America. I love American people. I love the entrepreneurial spirit. Despite what is going on politically, I have had the privilege and honor of being able to travel to various different parts of the world for work. And whenever I'm in America, it's the it's still the only place where I really feel like I can make all my dreams come true. And perhaps that's because of the people that I've met, and a lot of my dreams genuinely have come true whilst I've been in The States. But it is a place that really allows somebody to create the life that they want.

Now, like I said, right now, there are a whole heap of barriers that are being put up. It seems like every day, there's a new announcement of yet again another barrier, but I want to use this as an opportunity to encourage American listeners to continue pushing forward with their dreams and aspirations because it can definitely happen. Now when I compare how disability is viewed in The UK as opposed to in The US, In The UK, we are not ahead on many things, but we are ahead on this attitude towards disability. First of all, people just not understanding what it means, and the use of language. So for example, in The States, people still use the term handicapped. I was so shocked. Someone said I was like, no. No.

I don't think you should use that term. And they're like, oh, but that's just that's just what we say. Whereas, in The UK, we refer we would use the term accessible. Those are accessible facilities, for example. So in terms of language, I think in The UK, we are a million miles ahead. We're also ahead in terms of awareness. I think, in America, I am continuously having to explain what dyslexia is and how it shows up for myself personally, whereas in The UK, I don't have to do that as much. And I bring this up because my first degree is in religion, so I'm really, really interested in religion and how it shows up and how it interacts in in different parts of life and different aspects of life.

A lot of people don't realize that The US is a very Christian country, actually. And, there's the conversations I've had around disability often kind of morph into conversations about healing, and questions about whether, particularly with invisible disabilities, whether it is a spiritual challenge. I've had that conversation a number of times and a misunderstanding between mental health or mental illnesses and neurodivergence. This is a big one. Constantly having to say that, look, there's an intersection, but they're not the same thing. And, you know, neither of them are anything to be ashamed of. So I think America is still in a place where awareness campaigns really need to be had. Now given the current political climate, that's going to be quite difficult.

I think in private sector, we're going to see people moving forward in terms of their education around disability. I think in your federal and public sector, you're really going to struggle with that because all these barriers are being put in place. Erin Hawley: That makes total sense, and it's so interesting you bring up language, as because I think that is such a it kinda does keep the pulse on whether or not you you need awareness campaigns still.

Onyinye Udokporo: Yeah.

Erin Hawley: I like the way you phrase that in that, like, there is still a lot of awareness that needs to be done. You brought up the, separation differences and similarities in mental health and neurodivergence. I think that's really interesting because one thing I've noticed about American disability culture, and I do think it has to do with the American fear of using the word disability. And, I think that because of that, there is a tendency to really put, like, chronic illness and mental health issues in completely separate categories. And so when we've brought up neurodivergence, which is, like, boldly in the disability space and encompasses mental illness, I think that it makes some people really uncomfortable. And I am interested in, like you you said it's kind of separate, the mental health versus neurodivergence. What have conversations, been like for you when you are trying to kind of explain neurodivergence as disability in general?

Onyinye Udokporo: So how I like to explain it to individuals is, first and foremost, is that the the separation between neurodivergence and mental health is just for people to understand that being dyslexic, for example, is not the same as having depression. But you can have you can be depressed as a result of your dyslexia not being very well managed. So that's the first thing. It's it's kind of making people understand that there's an intersection, but they're not entirely the same thing. When I talk about neurodivergence, I like to start off with the fact that it's simply a term, a somewhat complicated term that refers to the fact that we all have different minds. Now some people turn around and say, well, if we all have different minds, then therefore, we're all neurodivergent. And to a degree, that is true. To a degree, everybody has a different mind, you know, so therefore, you know, we're all different.

And so there is a neuro... amongst mankind. However, we have something called neurotypes, and there are a range of different neurotypes spanning from dyslexia, dyspraxia, Tourette Syndrome, ADHD, autism. That's not everything that is considered a neurotype. But those are just that's just what I'll stick with for now because I we're limited on time. And if somebody has one of those neurotypes, they are neurodivergent. And what does that mean? That means that they will have many talents and gifts, the neurotypical people. So a neurotypical person is someone who doesn't have one of the neurotypes I've just mentioned. But a neurodivergent person will also have a number of challenges and differences.

And I stress using the term challenge and difference as opposed to difficulty and weakness because the way in which we talk about neuro is extremely important. These individuals go a lifetime with low self esteem, low confidence, instability, for a range of different reasons, often because they've not had access to the right support. And so the last thing you want to do when somebody is already in a low place is start telling them that they have a chat they have a weakness and that they are difficult. So in my book, I make a real point about dyslexia being a learning difference as opposed to a learning difficulty. Because in actual fact, all it means is that I learn in a very different way to my neurotypical peers. It doesn't mean that I learn in a way that is difficult for those who are trying to teach me, if you see what I 

Erin Hawley: mean. Yes. I think this is such an important topic and especially when I think because I before I got my autism diagnosis, I was, like, consider myself very much a mental health advocate. And in full honesty, I didn't think about the world of disability at all. Like, I just didn't it wasn't that wasn't the world I was in. And there was this kind of recurring theme of this, like, there's something to overcome. There's something you can beat or grow out of. And it's very it's I think it's a really important nuanced conversation to have, especially with, like you know, in The US, I think that there is a level of, like, we're okay with talking about anxiety and depression now.

But we talk about them as, like, something that can happen aft like, you lose a job. Yeah. And maybe then you go through a bout of depression and you need but, you know, I have people in my life who have struggled with long term drug resistant depression, and they go through bouts of isolation and depression regularly. And it's probably something that's going to last forever, and I've I've really excited that we're moving into an understanding of, like, these mental illnesses can be little bouts of things you deal with, and they can also be lifelong lifelong things you live with and enter the realm of disability. And I think that that is really important with what you're saying because when you just call it, like, a weakness, it feels conquerable. And there's got to be I think that the choice of language is important because I could see someone taking what we're saying and being like, well, this is leaning towards that. Like, don't say disability. But that's not what we're saying.

There's nuance here. 

Onyinye Udokporo: There's nuance here. I'm very happy to to mention the term disability, to use it to describe myself when trying to advocate for my needs. But it is also very important to speak positively about what I am experiencing in order to boost my own self esteem and also for me to see myself as someone that is capable. Because just because you are disabled does not mean that you are incapable. Erin, I know that you wanted to jump in.

Lily Newton: No. I was just thinking, like, the way we talk about disability is also affects how people understand us and the expectations they put on us. Like, before I said to the thought I didn't have any friends or a job. And if we talk about disability as, like, a difficulty, as you said, that puts the onus, I guess, on society to, like, go deeper into understand into understanding disability. Does that make sense?

Onyinye Udokporo: That makes complete sense.

Lily Newton: Yeah. Because, you know, it's like, I wish we could talk about disability more as, like, not a judgment and just, like, a fact. And yeah.

Onyinye Udokporo: I think I think this is so important, particularly in America where your new, head of health secretary well, in The UK, we would say this is the sec the health secretary, Kennedy. I mean, he's come out with some alarming misinformation about autism and how one can become autistic. Mhmm. And so this use of language is particularly more important for advocates like ourself to be using to really clarify some of the things that are being, fed to the population through mass media. FYI, there is no vaccination that will make you autistic. In case you're listening, that is a complete, untruth. And, you know, it it it just goes to show that the power of the words that we use can have serious consequences if it's not monitored and checked.

Lily Newton: Right. And, like, let's pretend for one second that vaccines made you autistic. So what?

Onyinye Udokporo: That that that that is another very valid point, Erin. Let let us pretend that vaccines did make an individual autistic. What exactly is the problem with that? I think you raise a really good, point there. Already the predisposition is for people to see being disabled in any way, shape, or form as a negative as opposed to seeing it as a part of somebody, and it can be a very positive part of somebody. And I I commend you both for the work that you do because it really helps people see themselves in the very best possible way.

Erin Hawley: Well, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that, and I do think that using the word disability is so important. I had a I had a point I wanted to make, but I'm I'm losing the point. But, Erin, you had said something in there that I wanted to comment on. One second. Giving my brain a second to follow-up. Oh, with, like, the, you said something about it being kind of neutral. And I think that that I learned a lot from the, like, body neutrality movement, which is different than the body positivity movement of, like, you have to feel positive about the way you look all the time, different.

Erin Hawley: And I have learned from a lot of, like, amazing fat activists who, are very, like, say the word fat. The reason you're scared to say it is because in your brain, fat equals terrible, when in reality, it's it's a body type. And I I've learned a lot about that and then the realization of, like, the word disability is morally neutral. Like, there's nothing it's it's just a fact of life, and that's when it becomes so important though to then be really specific in how we talk about these kind of traits that come about because, like, yes, having autism has given me a lot of really great gifts, and there's things I love about my brain because of it. And I have meltdowns that make me unable to work, and that is a big part of my disability. And both are parts of the disability, like, the really cool stuff my brain can see and the really, like, devastating parts. So I just I love that we've spent a lot of time talking about the importance of language because it gets sometimes

Onyinye Udokporo: a little bit.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. Or, like, almost made fun of in the way of, like, oh, you're worried about, like, rhetoric and this when there's so many bigger problems. And it's like, but the way we speak actually does do a lot. I know you're not worried about it.

Onyinye Udokporo: Yeah. Yeah. Especially in this time. So I yes. I'm very fortunate to do some television work, based in The UK. America, if you ever, want a factual TV contributor, I'm I'm always here. Just saying. But I I do I do some UK TV work, and that work really has taught me the importance of language and just how quickly your message can be spread.

You know, I can do breakfast television and be on air, and, genuinely, millions of people can hear what I've said in minutes, especially because now they clip things up, they reshare them, they repost them. And so I think very carefully about what I'm going to say in the hope that it will make some sort of impact. And I really before because I'm sure we're going to move on, but we're not gonna do a whole hour talking about language. But, something else that you said, Lily, that is so important, which is that as much as I advocate very strongly for speaking about disability positively, it's also important for us to be honest and real about the challenges that are faced. You know, there was a period of time where for whatever reason, particularly on LinkedIn, everyone wanted to describe being neurodivergent as having a superpower. Mhmm.

It used to really get on my nerves because it's like, my dyslexia means I can't read a map. My ability to manage time isn't always fantastic. And because I can't read a map, I'm often late. In combination with my inability to manage time, it is is a nightmare. It then triggers my IBS. I then run the risk of quite literally going to the toilet on myself. Okay? There is absolutely nothing super power about this whatsoever. Right? And I think it's important to just be real.

I think to sum up the the conversation around language, it's authenticity. It's speaking about your disability in an authentic way that is the most important thing. Because in doing so, you will naturally speak about the positives. You will also speak about the challenges, and you will naturally kind of get that balance across to whoever is listening to what you're saying. 

Lily Newton: Right. And it's like yes. Yeah. Because, like, saying that we have a superpower is further stigmatizing and othering because all the super all the superheroes that I know are aliens. And so it's like really? Just yeah. It's very frustrating. Exhausting.

Erin Hawley: Exhausting. And I love that the wrap up on that is authenticity because that's kind of our whole thesis of this podcast is, like, you know, we can when we were talking about creating this, it was like we could, pick, like, educational topics and try to have, like, a different topic per episode. We were like, what if we just made a space for really authentic conversations? For taking those moments where and, like, not editing out, you know, a minute a few minutes back where, like, my brain took a minute to catch up with my mouth. And that happens to me often and is something that I think it's edited out of a lot of media. Like, I, and we'll move on from this, but I just recently found out that, Billie Eilish, celebrity I love so much, has Tourette's, and she's, like, pretty open about it. And She is. There's the amazing interview with David Letterman where you actually show it. And I was watching that interview and just realizing, like, oh my goodness.

So much editing has been done on other before she was open about this, which everyone can take their own time to be open about their own things. But there's just a lot of effort to take away authenticity of disability because 

Lily Newton: Yeah.

Erin Hawley: When we sneeze or stutter or spit or fart, like, those are things that we're still pretty uncomfortable with. And I think there's a lot of I feel very empowered in any conversation where you can talk about the fact that now I'm stressed and I might poop myself. This is a real reality for me. Like, I and I think it's just really important, so I deeply appreciate that that was the first chunk of our kind of conversation. So we've talked a lot about kind of acceptance, and you were, if I'm correct, diagnosed with dyslexia at age 11. Was that the beginning of your kind of journey with understanding your own neurodivergences, or was that, like, kind of in a middle point?

Onyinye Udokporo: Wow. No one's ever asked me that before. I wouldn't consider I would consider my diagnosis at the age of 11, the beginning of a new journey, but definitely not the beginning of my entire journey with neurodivergence, with dyslexia. I my my mother is dyslexic and so but she didn't know.

Lily Newton: Mhmm.

Onyinye Udokporo: And so she saw a lot of herself in me when I was a child and we just referred to, our challenges as this problem that we both have. Like, we would both say to each other, you know, we have this problem. And I would say my journey with dyslexia started at five. I am the eldest of four children. I have three wonderful younger brothers. One of which is very close in age to me. There's only thirteen months between us.

Lily Newton: Yeah.

Onyinye Udokporo: And so yeah. Very close. I don't know what my parents are doing. But anyway

Erin Hawley: My my siblings are my siblings are ten months apart, so I get it.

Onyinye Udokporo: Oh, wow. Okay. But yeah. So, I I found that when I had, I found that well, my parents found that there should be, like, a natural, synergy is the wrong word, but there should be a similarity in our in our intellect, in our ability to be able to spell, read, write, do mathematics, etcetera. Mhmm. But the gap shouldn't be massive, but it was. And what my mother in particular identified is that I was way ahead of not just him, but most of my peers academically, in terms of my logic, in terms of my, yeah, in terms of my reasoning, my rationale, and most importantly, in terms of how I communicated orally, I always spoke, like, years ahead of of my peers. However, I was not able to translate that on paper.

And in my book I mean, I start my book off by explaining this very clear event that happened. My parents used to encourage us to do spelling bees. My parents are Nigerian. If anyone's listening and they're of Nigerian heritage, they will know that Nigerians don't play with education. So it was normal in our house to have, like, Saturday night, Sunday night spelling bee in our parents' bedroom. Like, quite literally, we would all stand in a straight line, and they would say a word, and then everyone would try to spell it. It was quite sweet. They did make it fun, to be fair, but I couldn't spell the word soap.

I was adamant that it is s o o p, and that's when my mom was like, right. We have a serious issue here because why can you not spell the word soap? But, also, I can't spell the word soap. Everything is phonetical to me. And so we used to I used to get up at 05:30 in the morning with her at, like, the age of eight, and I would cram words, literally cram words so that I'd be able to read in school. And so my journey with neurodivergence and dyslexia started with learning how to be incredible at masking it. Like, so so good at masking it to the point where it's actually quite scary how how I got away with it. I mean, I got away with it to the point where I learned how to read properly at the age of 12. So I went through all my primary education with things that I'd cram from the night before.

And I still carried this habit on in secondary school. I went to a boarding school in The UK, in Sussex, and we'd have to go to bed at a certain time. And I would often go to the bathroom, and I would sneak the class book that we're reading at the time to cram it in case the teacher asked me to read to the class because that's that's the thing they do in English schools. Like, they go around and say, hey. Will you read? And you will you read? And I understand why, but my goodness do I have so much trauma from that exercise. So that's my journey with dyslexia. It started with masking. It started with knowing that I have a challenge, but not knowing exactly what it is.

And it was really heavily focused on the reading, writing, and spelling aspect. I didn't notice the other challenges that come with dyslexia until after my diagnosis. 

Erin Hawley: Okay. I wanna I'm putting a pin in asking. I'd love to discuss some of those other challenges because I do think that dyslexia gets very, like what people know about it is a very stereotypical from a movie looking at a thing, seeing letters moving around the page. Like, it's just a very not what the authentic representation I know is. But I thank you for, like, being open and really vulnerable with that answer in because I think that we that is something that, like, is, everything you know about disability is wrong, is this kind of concept that diagnosis is a finish line.

Lily Newton: Yeah.

Erin Hawley: And or a starting line, like, either one when it's really usually neither. And I especially I so relate to that. My first experiences are learning how to mask, and just trying to hide what was going on and getting really good at it. And I think that especially as women, it's a lot, and obviously there are men whose neurodivergent experiences go under the radar, but I think with women, we are so socially pressured to behave in a certain way that I think that the masking comes almost a bit naturally, because a lot of women, whether neurodivergent or not, are masking something because we're supposed to sit down and be quiet. And Yeah. So, yeah, I appreciate you saying that, and I think that that a lot of our listeners will probably relate. What were you gonna say?

Onyinye Udokporo: Well, what I wanted to just add to that is that I was born in London, raised in London until, 11, and then went to this school, which is well, any English person will say Sussex isn't the real countryside, but listen, if you're from London, anything outside of London is the countryside. Okay? So I wasn't in a big city, and I with the heritage that I have in the Nigerian culture, being the eldest child is extremely important, but being the firstborn female child is extra important. And so I felt this inherent pressure to mask because I'm the hen leading the pack. And the hen leading the pack cannot not be able to read, cannot fall behind in her studies, cannot express that she needs help with what is considered a very basic skill in the Western world. So and I intentionally say Western world because we take for granted how lucky we are to be able to learn to read, write, spell at very, very young ages. There are people all over the world who aren't even given that privilege. And so I just I I really wanna stress this thing that you say about masking is that I find that ethnic minority people mask even more because they're trying to keep up with cultural pressures that sometimes Caucasian or European people just don't understand because they don't have to go through it.

Erin Hawley: Absolutely. What a freaking important point to make because and with which I think you'll relate to that the then you have a parent who's from that cultural background and you try to say, like, I'm struggling with this. Like, my Indian mom, I'd be like, I feel like I'm really weird in social conversations, and she'd be like, yeah. Like, I'm an immigrant. I dealt with that. That's it's hard to be different in a white town. Like, that's what you're feeling. And, yes, I'm sure that's some of what I was feeling, but also since those conversations, I've been diagnosed with autism and my mother with ADHD.

And I think that it goes much deeper and, yeah, that's just and it's like a double self fulfilling prophecy because of the pressure to mask and also and I don't know if all of our listeners will know this, but when it comes to neurodivergence, most of the early research that was done in The US on neurodivergence stemmed out of and someone can correct me on this if there's more information to the story than I know, but from what I know, a lot of the, information came out of beginning to study World War two veterans who had PTSD and starting to study how the brain kind of worked. And because of that, these research pools were predominantly, if not entirely, white men. And so many of our criteria, I mean, even through later volumes of the DSM, all of the research is on what autism, dyslexia, etcetera, looks like on white young boys who act very differently than black and brown young women. Like, it's

Onyinye Udokporo: Very, very, very differently. Very differently. Erin, I'm not sure if you have any, like, cultural, challenges that you faced with your disability.

Lily Newton: Well, my mom is Cuban.

Erin Hawley: And amazing. And She's awesome.

Lily Newton: And, yeah, you know, there's a whole, like I think it's not even just Cuban. It's like all Latinos kinda have this, like, mental illness is not real. You're just, like, struggling, and you'll get over it eventually. My mom is not like that per se Yeah. Right now, at least. But, like, in in the beginning, it was like, oh, you wanna see a psychiatrist? Don't get over it. Mom. But yeah.

So that definitely and, a lot of psychiatrists don't, like, understand that cultural issue. But, yeah, it's been a struggle, but now it's she understands better now.

Erin Hawley: And I'm sure a lot of that came from, like, assimilation pressure, the feeling of, like, we can't be we can't be not white and struggling with this thing. So we're just gonna put, like, at least that's my my family's experiences. They're like, we already had to immigrate here. We're not saying you're sad now. Like Like,

Lily Newton: I left Cuba as a refugee. I have all this happened to not, like, you'll be fine. You'll get over it. It's like, okay. I get it. You had a difficult childhood, but that doesn't mean, like, mental illness is not real. Yeah.

Erin Hawley: Absolutely. What was when your mother, did she go through, like, getting diagnosed with dyslexia fully as well? What was that kind of journey like? We talked about moms a lot on this podcast. We love them.

Onyinye Udokporo: Oh, I we love mom. I love my mother to no end. I feel like she's more famous than I am. I mean, I did a whole TED talk about her so that, I did a TEDx about her and her story, her phenomenal story, of being a brilliantly neurodivergent entrepreneur businesswoman. But I'll tell people something to make them laugh. When I was first diagnosed with dyslexia, obviously, because I lived away from home and I would come home periodically, I I called her to say that, I have this thing called dyslexia. And she said, no. You don't.

She said, my mom is Christian. I'm a Christian. She said, god forbid. You cannot have a disease. I did not give birth to a child with an illness. Don't don't forgive me for saying this, but she said, don't let them whitewash you, basically. And I was like, no.

Erin Hawley: No. We all yeah.

Onyinye Udokporo: So the teachers called her to say the same thing. Like, she came into the school, and I said to them, look. You're going to have to let me moderate this conversation because my mom really fears that I've got this lifelong disease. And, you know, you're telling her there's no medication for it, so she feels like I'm stuck with this illness forever. And it was myself sitting next to her alongside, no, opposite two teachers. It felt like a very formal, serious, heavy interview. And I lightened the mood. And I said, look, mom.

You have dyslexia too. This is the problem that we've been talking about for, like, seven or eight years. We're in this together. And, funnily enough, that is what broke the ice. She then did lots and lots of research. She was incredibly on board with my teachers, incredibly supportive. I read and write on yellow paper. I type on a yellow background, and I have, like, filters.

She was going on Amazon and buying them. She was buying me yellow notepads. She would even, like, shout at me when she would see me doing schoolwork on white paper saying, you know, this is some form of self sabotage that you know is supposed to be canary yellow. And so she became and and still is my champion. So it it it it didn't initially start well. She genuinely thought I was deceased. But when I said to her, well, if I am, so are you. So, like, you know, God forbid for both of us.

She came around to and she is so thankful. Like, she's the biggest advocate now for other black moms encouraging them to go and get a diagnosis if possible for their child because she saw how much it changed my life. And towards the end of my university, journey, my mother then went forward for her own dyslexia screening, and she's gonna do her formal diagnostic assessment, in the next couple of months. Her screening came back to say that she is indeed dyslexic. We knew this. We knew this book my entire life. But, yeah, it's been a really beautiful journey and very interesting for me as a 26 year old to watch someone in their early fifties go on the same journey and see how it affects people at different stages of life. But, yeah, just a really, really wonderful experience.

Erin Hawley: I'm so glad you had that. It's really wonderful. Especially. And really special that she had you as well because there is that level of, like, if she had found out she had dyslexia without you there, it could have been that internalized. Like, I'm Yeah. Best of it. And it's very that was very helpful for my mom and I as well was that kind of feeling of we're gonna tackle this together. And I think, Erin, you've talked about anxiety as well, like, getting talking to your mom and being there together.

Lily Newton: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, kind of like your mom. I'm pretty sure that my mom has anxiety, and it's like, mom, look inside yourself, and then look at me.

Onyinye Udokporo: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Lily Newton: But yeah.

Erin Hawley: Genetics are wild.

Lily Newton: We love moms.

Onyinye Udokporo: We love them.

Erin Hawley: We love supportive moms. It's a big part of our podcast. We always say that if we ever made merch, it would just be t shirts that say, like, moms rock. Dad's like, good. Because really supportive parents is quite crucial in, coming to understand your own identity. And I, really, really deeply feel for people who don't don't have that kind of support and hope that they find their chosen families because it's super important and support, which I didn't even mean to do this segue, but this is a good segue there in terms of finding your people who really uplift you. We got connected with you through your friend Rachel Lowenstein, who is on the podcast. Listeners, if you haven't listened to her episode, go check it out.

Onyinye Udokporo: Love Rachel.

Erin Hawley: Love her. Love her. And she you posted something not long after she was on the show that was basically you saying that, like, she kind of helped champion you to, like, prioritize getting your back and making money and not feeling bad about it. What has that journey been like for you? And, like, you've been an entrepreneur since you were 12. Like, you've been doing this forever. What has it been like for you, especially as a black disabled woman, to take up space and say I need to be paid. I need to earn what I deserve.

Onyinye Udokporo: So first things first, in Rachel is the angel that I never knew that I needed, but I needed. And she quite literally flew into my life and said, hey, you. You are extremely talented. You are extremely good at what you do. And most importantly, you take a lot of pride in putting in the work, and so, therefore, you should be paid adequately and fairly to do so. And that was a real hurrah moment for me because when you're working in this space, when you are an advocate let's put aside the fact that I've got a postgraduate degree from one of the best universities in the world in policy and education and sociology. So, you know, you would think that getting that would make a a switch go off in my head to know that I'm qualified to be here, but for whatever reason, that didn't happen. My experience with earning what I deserve came from tired of came from me being tired of being seen as a volunteer.

Onyinye Udokporo: So when you're working in the disability space, you are constantly asked to volunteer your time. You are an educator twenty four seven.

Erin Hawley: Mhmm.

Onyinye Udokporo: Because when people say the wrong thing, especially if you're neurodivergent, particularly my autistic friends who've got a real strong sense of justice, you're naturally going to say, hello, hi, excuse me. That was completely incorrect. That's not how you're supposed to speak to someone or that's not what that means, for example. All of a sudden when it comes to disability, huge organizations that turn over hundreds of millions, sometimes billions, and and are in profit, will turn around and say, we we don't really have the budget for that, but if you could just volunteer your time. And so prior to meeting Rachel, I had I had accepted that, well, I'm not in this space for the money. I'm in this space for the cause. I'm in this space because I feel called to be here. I'm doing some sort of kingdom work.

I feel led to be in this space. And so I'm just going to have to accept that being in this space means that I am, some sort of pseudo charity or, I am, you know, volunteering my time because that's all that people, see me as. And it wasn't until I met her that I realized that hang on a second. Just as how I run Enrich as a business and I think about profit and loss and where my time is going and the fact that I because I don't I don't, like, raise capital to do anything. I make the money and then I reinvest the profits into the next project or into the next thing I want to do. So in the same way that I do that with Enrich, if I really wanna grow this consultancy that I'm building, I'm going to have to take the attitude. She really made me understand that. It's also the importance of having a tribe or having a champion.

Like I said, she she is the angel. She is that champion that stepped in at the right time that said, hey. Look. You're more than welcome to continue operating in this way, but you're not going to last for long if you continue to do so. And now I challenge organizations, and I hardly ever do any work for free. I am when when organizations that I know are making money that are asking me to work, it's different if I'm doing something for a charity or if I'm doing something for a cause that I believe in. This is when an organization that makes significant amounts of money asked me to come in and, like, do a presentation for free. I flat out say no.

And I explained that I don't do free labor. And, also, as an advocate in the space, it would be totally wrong for me to do this work for free because it means every other disabled person that comes after me, you're going to ask the same thing of. And we are already marginalized as it is. It's already harder for us to get the work. And we often have I mean, I call it a neuro... tax. I end up spending more because of my disability, not out of choice, but out of an absolute necessity. So you telling me to come and volunteer my time when I'm probably gonna spend money to do the work is not acceptable, and I'm doing this to pave the way for my neurodivergent peers. So, yeah, that's that's how I kind of ended up getting to to this point.

And I think one last thing I'll say around this is the importance of encouraging disabled people people to live the best quality of life that they can. Since Rachel gave me that pep talk and really made me see my own value, and I've been able to quite significantly increase, my earnings for which I'm extremely grateful for. I haven't gone to Chanel or Louis Vuitton or Gucci or anything, although maybe I will, but right now, that's not the focus. I really focused on quality of life. I can I focused on convenience? I focused on lowering stress levels. I focused on investing in my mental health, paying for therapy because it's very difficult to get it, like, on the National Health Service in The UK now, on eating well, on things to improve quality of sleep. And I think those who are listening thinking, well, why do they say they want to be paid? It's so we can do that and then show up as an even better version of ourselves in the workplace. 

Lily Newton: Yeah. I what you said, I'm related to so much because I've done a lot of work in video game accessibility. And the amount of times huge companies have offered work to me and no money for it is unbelievable. And I think there's, like, this part of it is this belief that I'm not doing anything, so I have all this time to, like, do this free labor. And then there's also I I don't know what it's like in The UK, but in The US, if you make money, it it can it can affect your, your income, your Medicaid, and your Social Security. I don't have that problem. But it's the assumption that I can't take money. It's just so wrong. So wrong. Just really frustrating.

Onyinye Udokporo: So what? Do people just think that you're sitting at home all day, like, doing nothing?

Lily Newton: Oh, do you have time to playtest this game and write a 10 page paper about it? Like, no. I have a job. I have friends. I have

Erin Hawley: You can pay me my hourly rate? Like, that's just ridiculous.

Onyinye Udokporo: It's ridiculous.

Erin Hawley: And I'm so glad that both of you are putting in because it's hard to say no. It's really hard to send that email that's like and, frankly, accepting this would be contradictory to all the advocacy I do. That's a hard thing, and that's putting you in that space. Now I have to be a teacher here. And but it's it's crucial and it's really important because, you know, we talk about, like, making employment more fair and everything you do to advocate for yourself helps the next person with a disability in your position, and I know, like, I sometimes feel really selfish when I ask for accommodations. I feel like, I don't deserve this, and that is something that I really have clung to, this understanding of that. Like, if I ask, it makes it easier for the next person who asks. And it's just really important, especially in the world we're in right now, to advocate for yourself and make space for others to feel comfortable advocating for themselves.

Onyinye Udokporo: I'm gonna give an analogy as to why and this is a personal thing that happened to me, as to why it's important for someone to advocate for themselves. I had to go to Middle East for work. The client said, like, you know, we'll pay for you to come, obviously, because, I mean, we have to for you to get here. But, like, we're only gonna pay for you to, like, sit in the most afford with the in in the cheapest seat we can get. So I begrudgingly said yes. Knowing that it's going to impact me, I get huge travel anxiety because I can't read a map because of my dyslexia, and it really sets off my IBS, like, bad. Okay? So sorry, guys. I'm gonna overshare.

TMI, if you don't like those things, then, apologies, but this is the reality. So I took the worst well, it was the worst thing I've ever sat on in a plate, to be fair, but I took I took the offer because I just I wanted to get the work. I wanted to get the experience. Oh my goodness. I was stuck in the security queue for, like, ages. I already got to the airport, no word of a lie, four hours before my flight, which is ridiculously early, but I have to because of all the anxiety. And then for whatever reason, the departures lounge was really, really busy, really, really crazy. Before I had gotten onto the plane, I had my first bout of the shits before getting onto the and and that's when I knew that, okay.

I'm in for a nightmare. I barely ate on the seven hour flight. I barely slept on the seven hour flight. I managed to get through their security, and I kid you not, I could not leave the airport for two hours. Because every time I plucked up the courage to leave, my bowels decided to explode, like, literally. So I was in and out of the toilet. At one point, I thought, they're going to think that I'm, like, carrying some sort of contraband inside of me, which which made my anxiety spiral. Yes.

I spent the first day, like, knocked out, sleeping, and terrified of eating anything. Let's fast forward to last year when my favorite my favorites at Google flew me out to Vegas to do some work. They are very aware of, like, my experience. It was also a really, really long flight, and I had to go via Canada. So I was traveling for, like, fourteen or fifteen hours. It was crazy. But they put me in business. I had no anxiety.

I had no IBS. I ate. I slept. I showed up for work the next day with no issues, having come from London in a totally different time zone. And so I say that to say that, do you see the difference that accommodation made? People think, oh, you wanna fly in that class because you are bougie or you are spoiled, but it's not about that. I got onto the plane before everybody else. That made the anxiety calm right down. Someone took me through security.

I find security really nerve wracking. That also calm things right down. My assistant sent over the foods that because there's certain foods you avoid when you have IBS. Mhmm. They knew this. The crew had already prepared meals for me that didn't have my trigger foods. So I could eat like everybody else and not have some sort of storm in the in the bathrooms, which would have believe me, everybody on that plane would have experienced what I was experiencing. So you you see the difference, and I think it's important for me to share that so people can see that difference and know the importance of advocating for themselves. Erin Hawley: And advocating for the people that you're trying to work with because I know Yeah. I know there's no way you were able to give your very best work to that first experience because you're just feeling terrible. Like, yeah, it's, it's pretty pretty crucial, and I think that, the only way I know to, like, help get through those feelings of, like, everyone's gonna think I just wanna be in business class because I wanna be in business class.

Lily Newton: Yeah.

Erin Hawley: Like, it's just these kind of sharing these authentic stories and sharing and understanding and, helping other people who maybe don't understand why flying why we're saying, I'm autistic, you're dyslexic, and we're like, I have a lot of flying accommodations. I understand that that might be confusing. People don't understand why that would be. So we have to just keep sharing, and I so appreciate all of the work that you do. I think that you're doing a really good job. You and Rachel together are just such, like, a force. Powerhouse. So good.

You're both powerhouses on your own as well. I'm, like, I'm just so grateful for the work you're doing, so grateful for your vulnerability, and thank you for coming on this show. I we have, like we're technically out of time recording, so I don't wanna keep you any longer than, we would say. But I if you have time for one more question. 

Onyinye Udokporo: I do have time. Please go ahead. I'm really enjoying it.

Erin Hawley: Okay. I have one more on that because we like to move into the final question of our podcast talking about, the different areas that are Easterseals pillars. Because, you know, Easterseals is working to empower people at all ages, all stages of life. The work extends to education, employment, health, transportation, and community. And we've referenced it a lot, but, we haven't fully told the little story of the fact that you launched your tutoring business at the age of 12, which eventually evolved into enriched learning. And then your postgraduate degree, which is on education policy and society is, and you researched during COVID the digital divide. So I'm curious from 12 to now, like, what how did enriched learning evolve to what it is, and how did that, like, postgraduate research you do affect the other work you do in the education space?

Onyinye Udokporo: Wow. Big, big question to end on.

Erin Hawley: Big, final question.

Onyinye Udokporo: So the tutoring business, which has now grown into something even bigger in in in recent months, it grew from a passion of trying to increase the social mobility of the area of which I'm from. So I'm from a town called Edmonton in North London. It is a low aspirational high crime area. And so I grew up with a predominantly with a lot of knife crime around me. I'm very fortunate to have amazing parents who sheltered myself and my my siblings from these things, but it does doesn't mean that we didn't see it, like, real atrocities. You wouldn't let your child, you know, go out in the dark on their own in Edmonton. It's it you know, you still wouldn't. And there are pockets I mean, the bigger town is Enfield.

There are parts of where I'm from that are extremely affluent, like like, I'm talking about multimillion pound mansions, and then we have the equivalent of what you call the projects. We have what we call council estate. So a real big a vast gap in terms of social class, and I've been interested in social class from a very young age, why it exists, and what we can do to create equity to bit bridge the gap. So I started tutoring because I won a scholarship to this very, very prestigious very prestigious school. It you know, a boarding school in The UK costs tens of thousands of pounds per year. But fortunately, for me, my parents did not pay the bulk of that. I had amazing, let's just call them sponsors, who believed in me and my academic ability with my dyslexia, might I add, which is another really important point. And so the tuition business grew because I'd come home from the summer.

I'd grown I'd spent my first year in a very affluent space exposed to lots of different activities that I'd never done in Edmonton before. And I was talking to my friends in Edmonton, and I thought, well, why can't they do what I'm doing at my school? Like, I know my school costs lots and lots of money, but can I create an opportunity for them to access that if they want? And it's really important if that I stress if an individual wants to. Because what I don't want this to come across as is that I am pushing affluence, as the only route to success. It is not. But in the case of The UK, the type of school that you go to does in unfortunately, in many ways, open many doors for you, and in some cases, close many doors for you. So I started tutoring to provide more opportunity for people to to to to access, you know, different types of schools, different types of things. It started in my parents' living room, started off with a group of one or two. By the time I was 18, 19 years old at university, I had over 50 students in and out of the of the living room over the weekend that I was tutoring.

These young people ended up going to some of the best schools in the country on scholarship. I then went to China for a bit, which was a real experience. Be a dyslexic in a Chinese university, I went to Tsinghua University to do an exchange program with a focus on online education. They basically said this lecture doesn't exist, and I had to just get on with it. So I didn't have any of my accommodations, which is a conversation for another podcast, but that's actually how the online platform was born. And now we're working, directly with local government. So we're what like, if it was The US, we're working with, like, the federal education departments in different states, different cities, developing education programs, programs that have been tailored to bridge that social mobility gap. So that's where we are with enriched learning, and and that's how it's grown, and it's grown so beautifully over the last fourteen years.

And I'm just about to actually start a new master class program to kind of kick start that social mobility stuff. And in terms of the research that I did at postgraduate level, I've always been interested in online education because I think it's a real powerful resource to enable people who are disabled to have access to really good quality education. Really, really important. We don't use it enough in The UK, so I decided to do some research, and the pandemic was perfect as to what are the barriers to entry. And that dissertation ended up, in Number 10, which happens to be the residence of our prime minister, which is pretty cool. And I was looking at the gap, and worryingly, we have a software gap, but we have a hardware gap in The UK. So there there's an assumption that, you know, everybody has a computer at home, but I found that that was hardly ever the case. And I'm not sure what connectivity looks like in The US.

All I know is that connectivity is really expensive. Like, you guys pay extortionate amounts for your phone bills for data in The US. So I'm guessing connectivity is also a problem there. But I'm really interested in how we can integrate tech, including AI. It's not taking over, guys. Let's not spread that rumor as well. But integrating it particularly in education to to to, again, create an equitable space and and give people access to create their own success. That's that's that's my goal, giving you access to create your own dream and make it a reality.

Erin Hawley: Well, I'll just end with this. We talk a lot on this podcast about how much we dislike when non disabled people use the word inspiring because it feels very, like, infantilizing and very, like, disabled people are so inspired that you're existing. But we have kind of re we've in the last season of episodes, I feel like we've done a kind of reclamation of that word because in our community, we can inspire each other, and that is really cool. And I just have to say the work you're doing is incredibly inspiring in terms of, just seeing an issue and saying, okay, I'll tackle it. And I think that, as systems system in the next few years as they're going to, I think that's a really incredible skill that is often found in the disabled community. And I hope listeners I hope that, you find problems and tackle them with Oninyi spirit because that's, like, a very powerful one, and the work you're doing is making change. So thank you so much for everything you do. Thank you for coming on our show.

Onyinye Udokporo: Thank you for having me.

Lily Newton: Yeah. It is amazing. I love this episode. It's it's perfect.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. This this was so wonderful, and I know we're gonna be in touch. We have a fun empowering independence campaign coming up in the fall talking about independent learning, and I know we're gonna wanna chat with you about that. So, Easterseals people, don't worry. We're all well, this isn't the last we'll see of each other.

Onyinye Udokporo: For sure. Thank you.

Erin Hawley: So thank you so so much again. Listeners, thank you for being here, and having a listen or watching the video. Erin, thanks for co hosting with me. I love you.

Lily Newton: I love you.

Onyinye Udokporo: And I love you both.

Erin Hawley: We love you.

Lily Newton: Thank you, Nicole. Yay.

Erin Hawley: My goodness. Amazing. Listeners, I'm I'm geeking. I, I love you both. This was so fun. And listeners, love you as well. Tune in next time for another episode of everything you know about disability is wrong.