Episode 33: The Advocacy Power of Humor: Steven Verdile and The Squeaky Wheel

Episode 33 Show Notes

Humor can educate and challenge, but it must highlight issues without mocking the disability community. In this episode, we explore how satire can play into advocacy and ask, “What exactly makes good satire?”

Steven Verdile, Founder of Squeaky Wheel Media, shares his insights on the critical intersection of disability and content creation. Steven discusses the significance of focusing on specific issues, particularly those impacting the disabled community, and the protective measures taken to ensure writers' safety. 

Connect with Steven Verdile on LinkedIn, Instagram, and his website.  

Transcript

Lily Newton: Hey, listeners. Welcome to another episode of Everything You Know About Disability is Wrong. Today on the podcast, we have a very exciting episode, with one of my favorite comedians, Steven Verdile. Welcome to the show.

Steven Verdile: Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

Erin Hawley: So Steven is the founder of the Squeaky Wheel, a nonprofit organization that empowers disabled writers to use humor to combat ableism, and it's the first ever satire publication focused on disability.

Lily Newton: Steven is also a leader at NBCUniversal's MyAbilities group. We're so excited to have you. Before we get into the actual interview portion, let's go ahead and do our audio descriptions. I can start. This is Lily speaking. I am a white passing multiracial woman with half blonde, half black hair split straight down the middle, Cruella Deville style. I'm wearing a black turtleneck in a little kind of holiday kinda sweater and the necklace that I will fidget with throughout the course of the entire episode. To you, Erin.

Erin Hawley: Hi, miss Erin. I am a white woman with red hair and blue eyes, and I have a black shirt on. And it blends in with my background, so I look like an a floating head. And I'll pass it to Steven.

Steven Verdile: Hi. I am a white wheelchair user. I have brown hair, a long beard, some glasses, a blue sweater, and a name tag that I forgot I was wearing, in case y'all forget who you're talking to. And, yeah, excited to be here.

Lily Newton: Love the name tag. Maybe we should make all of our guests start wearing them. We should just all have name tags. Well, we're super excited for you to be here today. We are big fans of the Squeaky Wheel and the work that you do. So let's get into it. Erin, take us away.

Erin Hawley: So the name of our podcast is Everything You Know About Disability Is Wrong, and we always ask our guest, what do people get wrong about you?

Steven Verdile: So I think one thing that people get wrong about me and about kind of a lot of disabled people in general is that there is a hesitancy to be silly and make jokes about disability, or that jokes about disability are offensive or or could be hurtful. That is certainly the case in some instances, particularly based on sort of the intentions and who they're coming from. But what I love to talk about in all of my work is sort of how humor actually brings people together, how it can make difficult, sensitive topics more relatable, more acceptable, and really to get people to see disability in a entirely new light.

Erin Hawley: Totally.

Lily Newton: Love that. I love that so much because it goes into what I think comes up a lot on this show, which is like that people have almost assumptions of, like, fragility.

Steven Verdile: Totally.

Lily Newton: And we're funny. Like so, I I think it's really important to share that. And a lot of my favorite comedians are disabled and freaking hilarious, and people don't don't necessarily tie those words together always. So I appreciate you starting us off with that.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. I think a lot of people too think that disabled people don't know they're disabled or don't realize they're disabled or people think they don't understand the way they're perceived, when it couldn't be further from the truth, that, like, most of us are hyper aware of how we're perceived and in what ways we're different and what ways we're similar. I think that there is a a real misunderstanding there.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. And I think, also, like, people assume when we make jokes about disability that we're putting ourselves down, but that is not the case. Like, the response sometimes is, oh, that's not true. Oh, you shouldn't say that. It's like, yeah. It is true, and it's hilarious, and that's fine.

Steven Verdile: Absolutely. I think it's very empowering to be able to sort of poke fun at your differences and not be sort of ashamed or or try and downplay them.

Lily Newton: Yeah. In 2024, self deprecation cannot just be exclusive to nondisabled, cis, straight white men anymore.

Steven Verdile: Like Yeah. Absolutely. And I think in in some ways, it's almost like I'm a little bit sick of those comedians doing it because it feels, like, so artificial when people are self deprecating and have, like, the most wonderful glamorous lives. I'm like, there are people that, like, actually have things to be self deprecating about, and that's actually funny. But it I think that it rings much more true and much more genuine, when it comes to people who can speak to sort of actual challenges and struggle in their humor.

Lily Newton: I completely agree. Because, like, there's such a I feel like a lot of self deprecation for the sake of self deprecation ends up, like, almost making fun of doing comedy. And it's like, well, here I am doing comedy, and it's always just so much fun here when someone gets up and it's like, well, here I am doing comedy, and I'm dealing with some other shit.

Steven Verdile: Exactly. Exactly.

Lily Newton: Well so you founded Squeaky Wheel. For any of our listeners that don't know about it, I would love to get an origin story if the if you have that. I would love the origin story for the hilarious satire publication you've created.

Steven Verdile: Sure. So for quite a few years before I started the Squeaky Wheel, and just in context, I started in 2021. So when I graduated college really around 2018, I was so passionate about humor and comedy, and I knew my voice was sort of a disability voice and sort of the lens through which I view everything. I had so many jokes and stories and things I wanted to share. Working in a TV entertainment company and really being such a fan of television and film, my instinct was to try screenwriting and then try and write some of the stories and experiences, as potential video content. And what I ran up against pretty quickly was realizing that creating video content, whether it be short films or a web series or even sort of really short form, like, in real type content, is fairly inaccessible, particularly for someone with my capabilities and skill set. It usually requires a lot of budget. It requires a lot of people.

Steven Verdile: It requires a lot of time. And I realized that all of those sort of barriers were preventing me from being able to all the jobs and and to get them out quickly and timely. And in the 3 years it might take me to make a 4 minute video, I'm already sort of giving up on it or not caring about it or onto the next thing. So I started looking for a way to get these stories out quickly and easily and in a very accessible manner. And that was when I sort of had that moment of the short form Internet satire websites like The Onion or Ductress, which I call, That those sort of memeable little short running pieces are actually super accessible for me. I can write them easily. When I launched the website, I already had written 20 something stories, like, print them all, put them all out at once just as, like, 0 dollars, just taking from all my scraps and jokes and notes and sort of launched it with that. And what became really exciting and sort of really the core of what spooky build is is I realized that it wasn't just a more accessible format for me, but it was actually a more accessible format for almost all disabled writers that there is a lot of disabled people that wanted to be funny and wanted to try comedy.

And going out at 10 o'clock every night to a comedy club that's an hour away is, like, exhausting and not the most accessible. And this was a way for them to put their jokes out there, to try right into the experience, but in a way that is super accessible to me, and sort of much less and how it's designed friendly. And I think that that has been sort of our core that we want to make our platform a place for, like, new writers and sort of junior disabled comedians to really get a chance to put some jokes into the world.

Lily Newton: Oh, it's so it's so good. Like, it's it's so good because it's like a a double kind of mission of the, like, putting funny stuff out there, but that also that layer of giving people their start is is cannot be undervalued, I think, because the barriers to entry in comedy are are really hard. Like, it's, feels like if you don't have something published, it's impossible to get anything published. And that one that one story can be the thing that, like, really gives you that credibility. So I think you're doing some incredible work in terms of helping the comedy world be a more welcoming space.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. I think I know you mentioned that you perform stand up. I think what a lot of people don't realize is that to get into a comedy writer's room, performing stand up is almost always like a prerequisite that you have to be a performer first before you can be a writer. I personally never really had interest in performing. I wanted to be a writer, and I wanted to write. And I knew that even though I live in Manhattan, like, the heart of stand up, it would be so challenging and inaccessible to actually try and pursue it, that route. So I think that our platform is sort of a shortcut where you can stick right to the comedy writer's room experience, without having to sort of go through that really challenging obstacle.

Lily Newton: That's such a good point because even as I was, like, doing your intro in this episode, I found myself saying, like, my favorite comedian and then being like, oh, does that imply he does stand up? Because that's that's not the kind of comedy he does. But then I was like, no. He's a comedian. Like, it's not you don't have to just do stand up.

Steven Verdile: Whatever you're on and call me is fine.

Lily Newton: But I think it's a good point, though, because, we do tend to think of stand up as the, like, vehicle for becoming a true comedian, and, I completely agree that I have found it quite inaccessible. And, I like, everything about an open mic feels like a sensory and physical nightmare to me. So I, like, I say I do comedy. I do comedy in one space that I curated and I built to be, like, a sensory friendly space.

Steven Verdile: That's awesome.

Lily Newton: But, you know, I think without realizing it, your work really kind of motivated me to do that because it was like, yeah. I don't actually have to fit myself to these spaces. I can actually just build the spaces, a kind of a field of dreams. If you build it, they will come.

Erin Hawley: And even, like, calling it stand up feels ableist.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. Definitely. That was for quite a lot of us.

Lily Newton: It would just be like microphone comedy. Yeah.

Steven Verdile: I think too, like, that experience of building the space rather than finding it, in that sort of journey of of going from trying to write video content and screenwriting and all that to what the screen view is, there was a period where I had written the stories. I was thinking of, like, can I submit these to The Onion? Is there a place where can I submit so much movies or all these different and I was like, I really can't because, like, their audience just isn't gonna vibe with it? Like, it's not for them. And I think that was another real moment of, like, discovering the format, being that sort of short form of satire, and then discovering how much more powerful it could be to create a platform.

Lily Newton: Yeah. And I I'm so glad you went with what you did instead of, like, submitting your pieces because I think that there's, like, there's something about even just the, you know, the publication being called the squeaky wheel that gives that, like, permission that, you know, we talked about people sometimes are afraid to laugh at certain things. So it gives that permission and that feeling that, like, this is by us and for us and in a way that maybe in another publication, the stories wouldn't be. Like and so the headlines can be outlandish, and and, you know, it's in our community. So it feels like you know, I think that's an important caveat to the, like, we can make fun of ourselves. We can self deprecate. We can make comedy about this. It does kind of have to be within some kind of a, like, safe container, I suppose.

Steven Verdile: Absolutely. I think that, like I realized too when I was sort of establishing all the other satire websites trying to see, like, if they ever covered disability. What I came across was, like, 5 or 10 stories across the entire Internet, the entire world, that had to do with disability. And several of them, I was like, I can't really tell, like, if this even was coming from a disabled person or not. And then I was so delighted to find 2 different disabled writers. 1 who is ready for the onion, one who is ready for hard times, and seen that they were doing it, but then it became evident to me that, like, oh, 90% of their work doesn't even mention their disability. That's they actually can't really lead into it that heavily in their work at those platforms because the audience doesn't know where it's coming from.

Lily Newton: You know, that's another really great point about why I think what you're doing is so important for people getting their start. Because whenever I'm trying to submit certain comedy to things, unless it feels like a group that does understand the disabled experience, like, unless there's other disabled comedians, I I have this, like, innate fear of of just imagining them being like, oh, another autistic comedian. All of their stuff is gonna be about being autistic, like and kind of whereas, you know, in in the space I've made, we have quite a few autistic comedians, and we all do comedy about autism, and it's all different and funny. It's not the same stuff. And I think that that the squeaky wheel and the variety of, types of content or of stories that come out of, your publication show that, like, the collective of disabled comedians together can be a really incredible thing. For any of our readers, I I or, I mean, any of our viewers and listeners, I think you can kind of get an idea of what the squeaky wheel is based on our conversation so far. But, if you're still kind of like, so what do you mean by a satire publication? I have some of my favorite recent headlines to talk about that I love. One of my favorites that I literally sent to so many friends was ticket master requires users to find all 6 infinity stones and defeat Thanos to acquire accessible concert seats.

I thought it was such a good one because there was so much Ticketmaster stuff coming out at the time and how awful Ticketmaster was and nothing from the disabled experience, which all I've ever heard is how awful it is to get 88 accessible seats from Ticketmaster.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. I think that one too is, like, there's definitely no other publication that could write a story like that. Like, it it very clearly is for a specific audience, and that audience is millions of people, but it's not the general population. So I think that that is awesome. I also love that you mentioned that one because I've had the, great, like, opportunity to do a lot of podcasts and talk to a lot of people about their favorite spiritual stories and which ones sort of resonate with them, and it's always different. Like, I don't think anyone has ever mentioned that one as, like, one that really resonated with them. I love to hear how, like, everything relates to people differently.

Lily Newton: Yeah. I I love that one, and I think I love anything that, can take, like, a common hardship. Like, there's another one I really like that is it's saying that, like, making a call to CVS is now a a BDSM kink. Like and I I I truly like I even I I actually have a joke that I've done in the past on having to call Walgreens every month and how it's, like, the little bit of self harm that I haven't been able to conquer because it's so awful. And it's those kind of moments where it's like, this is something that I could easily do, like, a rant on my Instagram and be like, it's so awful that every month I have to make these calls and do this, and mostly people wouldn't really listen to it. But when I, like, shared that specific post on my story, felt like I got to try to explain, like, a common grievance in my life, how hard it is to just get my medications every month in a way that my disabled followers would be like, I completely understand this. But my followers who maybe don't take medications would be like, oh, I never really thought about that that being a bad experience.

Steven Verdile: Definitely. I think there's a lot of, like, power too. And when a a joke like that is published with, like, a name attached to it when I say a name, I just want the streaky real logo slash brand, whatever you wanna call it. It really gives it, like, a weight that there is a community for it and that people are enjoying it. I think a lot of times, people are afraid to make those kind of jokes on their own personal accounts, like, attached to their personal face because it feels kind of vulnerable and a little bit like you're just sort of making a joke for the ether and hoping that it resonates. But there's a real validation in publishing it under a publication with a logo and a team because then when it goes out into the world, even for the people that don't quite understand it, they realize, like, oh, it's not that this person is just bonkers and isn't funny. It's just that this isn't for me. This is for other people.

And that's why it has 700 likes, and I'm not one of them. Okay? It really helps to ground the humor in the fact that it is for a group of people. If you don't understand it or don't enjoy it, it's just not for you. It doesn't mean it's poorly done.

Lily Newton: Yes. Absolutely. I I think, yeah, that's really can be the power of comedy in general, but I love that you get specific like, having a specific audience is actually really powerful, and it does kind of create that sense of community. I mean, I I don't think I ever would have shared that, like, little bit that I do had I not seen it be on the squeaky wheel and then be like, oh, cool. Yeah. I'm not, like, making a big deal out of nothing. There's a lot of people who relate to this. I think that is kind of a power of social media to, like, vindicate our daily grievances because there's a lot when you live in an inaccessible world.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. And I think sometimes you'll make a a very disability specific joke in, like, a more general non disabled space. Like, if I posted a streaky bell headline that I wrote on my personal Facebook page for my friends and family, like, they were bomb. Like, the the it's not for them. It wouldn't do well. Maybe some of my disabled friends would like it and whatnot, but it it just doesn't work in that climate and that environment. And then the very same joke in a different room can crush. Mhmm.

Erin Hawley: There's definitely something about writing for the audience that will understand it. That is very empowering. And I think, like, I manage the Easterseals blog, which is all blogs by disabled authors. And I feel like, you know, I've learned so much just by managing that, and I feel like you've probably learned a lot too.

Steven Verdile: Definitely.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. Because it's like, you know, every experience is so different from disabled person to disabled person that it's just a great learning experience and environment that's very empowering.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. I think too there's a lot of, like, specificity and difference just between different disability experiences. It's no coincidence that, like, I'm a white American wheelchair user, and most of the early other writers that reached out were other white American wheelchair users because they were related to what I was writing and wanted to share their experiences. And then sort of we had a few neurodivergent writers. A lot of them were under women, and then all of a sudden, there was more interest from non neurodivergent women. So I read in present. It is one of those things that, like, there's certain disability tiers that I feel like we're really well integrated in, and, like, we really understand that. We have a lot of writers that are creating content for that world.

And then there are others that, like, we completely don't. So I'll say, I think I'm pretty sure out of our 50 or so contributing writers, we've only had one who is deaf. And the deaf population is massive. The deaf population is also very sort of isolated and different from a lot of the rest of the disability community. They have their own sense of humor. They have their own culture that is very different, and her stories resonate really well with them. My stories do not for the most part. I think some disability experiences are more general, but a lot of them are quite specific.

And it really is valuable to have that kind of variety and specificity within the community because you start to hit sort of the even more niche audiences within an already sort of minority audience.

Lily Newton: Yeah. Whenever disability gets categorized as, like, a kind of niche subject, I'm like, niche? It's the only identity status that every type of person could have. Like, there's a a 1000000 different intersections and ways that our disabilities affect us. So I think, like, there's whole, yeah, ecosystems within, and I think that it's a a real waste for, like, producers and, people who are, like, high up in entertainment to think that, like, there's a disability story.

Steven Verdile: Oh, yeah. There's thousands of it, and there's not even at least from the last, yeah, like, there isn't even a lot of hard boundaries sort of outside of, like, what is and isn't disability. We cross a lot into chronic illness.

Erin Hawley: Mhmm.

Steven Verdile: They have a lot of stories that are just about, like, the general shittiness of health care systems. And most people, even non disabled people, have experience with health care systems, and it's not really sort of unique to a small group. So I think, yeah, it's really important to think of disability as, like, a huge, huge catchall block, with sort of very gray soft edges.

Lily Newton: Yeah. I think that's a really good point and something we have certainly kind of gotten into on this podcast of, like, with a with a mission, like, having all disabled writers or all disabled guests, You have to be really aware of that, those gray edges, and they're very blurry. And because I think that there's and this is my personal opinion, but I don't think that there's any reason to make the disability label exclusionary because there are so many like, it's such a unique experience, I'm always telling my friends who have whether it's, like, mental illness they identify in or chronic illness, or, like, chronic pain, I'm always trying to be like, you can find community within the disability community. Like, you I'm always trying to bring people in, join the club because, if the world wasn't built for you, you can understand this experience. And I think that the, satirical way of writing that you do does help. Like, I think maybe there are people who would relate to squeaky wheel content and not realize that they would be relating to dis to disability content, quote, unquote, especially with with the health care system that we have that is so inherently disabling, and causes so many people chronic health issues. Yeah. I think satire is a great vehicle for that.

So I have a satire question because satire is very popular right now. Yeah. If you've spent any time on TikTok, you might know that some people do not understand what that word means, and satire sometimes gets used as well, I I didn't mean it like that. It was satire. It's kind of the new, like, I was being sarcastic. So I my question is, what makes great satire to you?

Steven Verdile: So I think there's definitely a lot of things that go into it, but the first one that came to mind is I am not one of the comedians who enjoys fooling people with satire and she's thinking it is real. I I think that is, like, kind of, like, disgusting to sort of put that content out and intentionally trick people. We're trying to bait people into thinking that sort of your fictitious story is a true story. I make it very clear in every sort of platform we're on that, like, satire is right in the bio. It's on the front page of our website. We are not trying to convince anyone, that our content is genuine. It still happens where people come across a story, and mistakenly sort of think it's true or or don't quite understand that it's supposed to be comedic, but it's not because we didn't make it clear. It's because they didn't really read it sort of thoroughly or or take the time to actually check.

So I think that transparency makes great satire in one way. The other thing that I think is sort of at the root of all satire is no matter kind of how absurd or silly or ridiculous the premise is, it's always alluding to truth. So it is explicitly fiction. It's explicitly not true, and it's explicitly trying to make you think of things that are true. So for the Thanos challenge for Ticketmaster, I don't remember that that story exactly, but it's clearly not a true story. There's no one who thinks that is actually on the street, guarding the accessible seats. But it does immediately bring to mind, oh, it is so unnecessarily challenging to purchase realtor accessible seating for a event through to the master. So it's it's both that very clear, fictitious nature and that very clear illusion to truth.

Lily Newton: So glad I asked you that question.

Steven Verdile: Me too. I'm sure I could come up with a whole different answer if I thought about it more, but it's definitely been a struggle about that one.

Lily Newton: I think you should stick with it. I think that's a really good one because if, yeah, if if your reader finding out or your reader or viewer finding out that it's not true makes what you're writing not funny, I think it's not great satire, and I I have seen too many people, especially, like, young this is just one specific example of this, but, like, young male comedians who are are with it and are woke. So their, like, misogynistic jokes are satire, and they're using satire as the vehicle to be like, man, it's so dumb when men hate women. Like, that's what they're trying to say, but it's, like, feels like they've just given themself permission to then go on a misogynistic rant.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. It's it's slippery. I think there's a lot of comedians that are, like, clearly doing that poorly, like you said. I I think maybe there's a a world where that works, but it works if you're getting away with it. If you're doing it and it's making people feel good and making them laugh, then sure. But, like, if it's making your audience feel bad or feel offended, like, you're not doing it well. You're just doing it sloppy.

Lily Newton: Absolutely.

Steven Verdile: I think so one more thing that comes to mind on the kind of truth and fiction thing. As the sort of editor, I have the joy and challenge of approving and rejecting which headlines and submissions, get published. And it is not something I take lightly because I always wanna make sure that kind of I'm not just biased towards, like, my own personal sense of humor. And hands down, the 2 things that I'm always sort of pushing back against are headlines that I'm like, oh, people might think this is real. Like, this is getting too close to, like, what actually happened, or the reverse where a lot of times we get people that write, like, you know, world's fastest wheelchair is is a rocket ship to the moon. And I'm like, this could be funny, but I don't know what you're referring. Like, I don't know what truth this is alluding to. It's just sort of like a joke about a really fast wheelchair.

And then it's sort of always pushing them. Like, oh, maybe the rocket ship wheelchair is, like, escaping Earth because the climate sucks. Like, I don't know. Let's we're trying to tie it back to something more grounded in reality, while still making sure it's transparently fiction.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. I imagine in today's misinformation all over the Internet that you have to be very careful with, like, what you post and how you say it.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. I I absolutely. I think I am probably more cautious than a lot of my comedian peers in that. I really do sort of tread carefully in these very sensitive risky areas. I'm sure you guys have seen yesterday. There was a CEO of a major health care company that got shot. Mhmm. There's a lot of memes about it on the Internet.

There was a lot of discussion within this group about, like, how do we handle this. And it sort of wasn't unanimous enough, but I'm like, let's just wait a bit, and let's not give our 2¢ on this one. Let's try to give it a minute because, again, there just wasn't enough consensus, and I'm fine, like, somewhat down to if you're in. It's not a big deal. But I think then there are times where maybe things like the election. There was a lot more comfort within our writers saying that, like, okay. This is what we wanna say. This feels good.

We felt confident. We're gonna put it out there. Most of the time, that strategy of being cautious when you need to and being bold when it needs your works. On very rare occasion, it doesn't, and things backfire. And then it's just like, okay. We're not perfect. Like, we made a a joke or a point that upset people, and it's because we're not the best at this. We're doing our best.

Lily Newton: I think that's such an important, point, though. Like, be cautious when you need to and be bold when you need to. Because I think that some people, myself included, as, like, a young comedian in a world of, like, edge lords, felt like, at one point in my life, it was like I wanted to be the first to the joke. Like, I wanted to be quick And, like, even, making social media content for Easterseals, when something happens, like, in disability culture, sometimes it feels like we need to put out a statement right now. Like, we need to do this immediately. And it's almost never a big deal whether we post something the next day or the next week. And oftentimes, if we wait a week where we can then get a lot of different people in the community's input, it's better content anyway. But that was a hard thing to unlearn because I think in today's world where something like the a billionaire being where something controversial happens in today's world, you can very easily get on TikTok and make a video immediately.

So the pressure is is there to be fast with your comedy. But if you're a young comedian listening to this, taking a breath and stepping back before putting your thoughts in the public eye can actually be very beneficial.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. And I think different sort of people have different taste on these things because the circumstances are different for them. I know I keep mentioning the onion. I love the onion. I think I don't know if they've done anything on that yet, but they probably will if they haven't. They're usually very fast, and they're usually very bold. And the reason The Onion can be so fast and bold is because they have millions of fans who know what they are and know what they stand for and agree with them, and will be forgiving of them if they make a joke that they sort of disagree with. We are not at that scale.

We could be squashed if we piss off the wrong big influencer. So we have to be a little more cautious. I'm like, that's fine. I think there's other things that, like, we can be super bold and quick with because we know, like, we own certain to be sort of human world. I don't mean we own them, but, like, we have we belong very, very much in certain spaces. So, like, if there is a Medicaid policy about preexisting conditions, like, we're gonna get to that joke as quickly as the onion or hopefully as well, because we know that world super well. I think that other things, like, when the Supreme Court, ruled to overturn Roe v. Right? That was one where I was like, this is kind of a disability issue for various different reasons.

But when we do our take on it, we need to make sure that, like, we're staying in our lane, which is how does the Roe v Wade decision affect disabled people. And we let reductus talk about how it affects women. So that's what they do best. I think that all that is really important of knowing, like, when it's your turn to make the joke.

Lily Newton: That yeah. That's such a great point, especially in, like, a TikTok world where it's very easy easy for content to stumble out of your lane and be taken completely out of context. Yeah. I think that that's it's also it also shows, like, I think an important thing you're doing as an employer of disabled people and specifically disabled writers in this space is by having that extra layer of caution. You are, like, not sacrificing your writers to the trolls for the sake of clicks because you very easily could do that, and you could get all the impressions because of people hating on your writers. And I think it shows the it shows a really important amount of care for your writers as their editor, and I think that that's really respectable.

Steven Verdile: Yeah. And I think in that sense too, that's one of the sort of beautiful things about satire and fiction is that, like, we have a very strict, you cannot write about your own life or family by name in a scriptural story. That is a no go. And the reason for that is because I don't want the trolls get into them. You'll also notice that at the end of our stories where we mentioned the writer's name, a lot of times, they have a lovely little cartoon of our writer, like a little illustration. And the reason for that, how it started was because I didn't even wanna put their actual face next to these stories, which is I was like, I don't want I think people might be a little more quick to attack if they see the face. If they see a cartoon, it feels almost like it's coming from a fictional character. So it it feels a lot less threatening and a lot less appetizing to kinda troll.

Lily Newton: Yeah. We did the same thing for our 1st season of the podcast. We were like, if we're getting just getting started, we we didn't do video, and we on our website, it wasn't a it wasn't a picture of us. It was cartoons of us. And it was just a level of, like, until we know that we have, like, the safety of our community that listens to this, it's scary to put your face out there. And I I don't regret it, and I feel incredibly supported by Easterseals in it. But it is it is it can be scary to put your face out there in general, so I think that that's a a really great idea, the cartoon version. Well, before we run out of time, I brought up Easterseals.

This is obviously an Easterseals podcast, and we like to spend some time on the Easterseals pillars, which are community, health, education, transportation, and education. Was that did I say education twice? Was that I said education twice because I didn't say it in the right community, education, employment, health care, transportation. That's the order I normally say it is. And if I say the wrong one first, I can't get it out. But we were discussing what kind of pillar area we wanted to talk about with you. We wanted to start talking about what where we've already kind of started to cover, but being an employer for disabled people as the founder and editor of this publication. Do you have you learned anything, that you didn't already know when starting squeaky wheel about, like, having a welcoming workplace? And is there anything you would say to other publications that have not expanded to hire disabled writers yet?

Steven Verdile: That's a great question. I also wanna preface this by being very transparent that while we are technically paying our writers, it is very small amounts. It is almost all of our budget, but our budget is quite small. So it's certainly not like a full time gig or anything like that for any of our writers. But one of our early goals was to compensate however much we can. And I think one of the things that I learned in that is that people are really understanding of, sort of budget limitations. I I was very worried that, like, it would almost be more insulting to offer our writers such a small amount, and I'll just say that, generally, our stories, we pay $20 for everyone that writes a story. It's a very small amount.

I'm fully aware of that. It's sort of on par with many of these other Internet satire places. But I was really worried. I was like, is this more insulting than just asking people to volunteer their time to do it? And what I've learned is it's actually quite the opposite that, like, people just feel appreciated, and they're like, I'm glad that you're always acknowledging that, like, this is bringing value to speak to you. And, like, this is worth something, and it took time and effort and energy. And there's such a sort of deep history of disabled people not being paid for their contributions. And I think if for nothing else, symbolically, it's very important, that disabled people get paid for the work they're doing. I think that we're gonna continue to scale as much as we can.

And the bigger we get, the more we can pay people, the bigger opportunities we can provide. All of that is sort of part of our trajectory. The other thing when it comes to employment is, I think, by adding a small bit of compensation, it adds a small bit of responsibility on the writers, which I think is really important as well. Because a lot of times, disabled people are presented with opportunities sometimes through charities and elsewhere where it's sort of like, oh, we don't really expect anything of you. You're just here as a bonus. And I think people do feel that, oh, if I'm gonna get paid, I need to deliver on whatever I said I'm gonna provide. And then it means, like, oh, I can actually put this on my resume, or we have people that put it in their LinkedIn and things like that, because it does sort of move it in a professional writing world once you add any bit of compensation.

Lily Newton: Yeah.

Steven Verdile: Sorry if that's a boring answer.

Lily Newton: It's not it's not boring at all. One, I love the transparency. I think it's I think it's really important because I could see that it it's very easy to say the, like, if you build it, they will come. Do your own thing. But that that is difficult. And, I mean, we even at the smallest comedy show that I do, it's like we we don't we we don't have any way of making money through it. So so we're not, like, paying people to do it, but we'll, like, film high quality clips for them. And then we try to do sometimes, like, pay what you can fundraiser type things for people.

And it's that, like, when you're within a community, it feels like a safe space to kind of explore those. Like, hey. We're gonna do what we can with what we got spaces. Now if Coca Cola is paying someone okay. I won't say that because it's a real brand. Now if big name brand is is paying someone, like, no money, and it's a big name mostly ran by nondisabled people, pay the disabled people contributing a ton. But from within our community, I think you're right that that, like, symbolic little bit that allows someone to get their start is is enough, because the work is important even just, like, to have the squeaky wheel, to have things to laugh at for this community is important. So doing it in whatever way you can,

Steven Verdile: I think, is is worthwhile? Yeah. And we fully intend to sort of keep growing, and the more we grow, the more we raise, the higher those rates can be and the bigger differences we can make. I'm super proud of, like I'm pretty sure we just sort of crossed the $10,000 of of money we've given to writers, which is, like, that's a significant amount of money. Sort of little $20, maybe a $100 here and there if it's a a speech in data or things like that. But, like, that's $10,000 that we put in disabled people's pockets. That wasn't there before. We did an awesome partnership with Shorehands. That is, like, the, transfer Lyft company, and we were able to give away an entire transfer Lyft system that is also, again, like, a $15,000 medical device.

So, like, again, we're we're doing our best to sort of contribute as much as we can in those ways, and I'm very, optimistic that, like, the more we do it, the more people will want to support us. And the more they support us, the more we can support our writers.

Lily Newton: I love that. I love that so much, and I think you will continue to grow. That's amazing. Before we wrap, Erin, do you wanna ask one last question on the other Easterseals pillar we wanted to talk about?

Erin Hawley: Sure. So we do a lot of work in education, early education all through adulthood. So I'm wondering, what was your experience, like, growing up with education?

Steven Verdile: Like, my personal experience? Yeah. Sure. So I think sort of an interesting tidbit is for kindergarten. I went to a very large school for students with disabilities, Henry Vista School, in Long Island, New York. I then, pivoted into public school for the rest of my school years and eventually went to a pretty big public university, for college. I think that, like, my experience as a disabled person was often very heavy on the social elements of school. So I feel like the opportunities I had were, like, pretty, accessible and fair in terms of, like, classwork and assignments, and I had pretty good relationships with my teachers and the school faculty. But the tender was always very challenging in a social way.

It's like, being in a public school where no one looked like the way I looked and no one sort of was dealing with what I was dealing with, and I didn't have, as many peers that could relate to my experiences. So I think that education for me, again, like, it was really empowering, and I think I'm only where I am because I had access to really good education. But sort of as a disabled person, I think it's really important to make sure that disabled children, especially, are, like, social and and have those social skills, because I think that it really goes hand in hand. And social skills and friendships and peer relationships are, like, a really important part of the educational system that disabled people aren't often given the same access to and that we don't think about. We're just talking about schools being inaccessible. We often don't think about, like, is recess accessible, and what does it mean for recess to be accessible? What does it mean for lunchtime to be accessible? Who's eating with food? And things like that, I think are are part of education because they're part of the education system.

Erin Hawley: Right. You you learn a lot outside of, like, the lessons in school. Having social, having handle, like, fights or great moments, it really school is more than learning, like, math.

Lily Newton: Yeah. You know?

Steven Verdile: Yep. Totally.

Erin Hawley: Yeah.

Lily Newton: And I do think that gets sometimes left out of conversations around education for disabled kids. It's like it gets the heavy focus on the, like, learning the curriculum. But what about all that other stuff? I I know that that's a big reason that our affiliates that do, like, camp programs love their camps so much because it's, like, these awesome memories that kids get to make together, and that's where a lot of growth happens and a lot of learning happens. Thank you so much for coming on our show.

Steven Verdile: Thank you for having me. Also, before I go, I just wanna say I love, love, love the Easterseals disability film challenge.

Erin Hawley: Yes.

Steven Verdile: My friend, Nick Novicki, our writer, Anna Pacman, works a lot with them. Cool. I met the handler. All sorts of people I know who are very involved in that project. It's super cool. One day, I will have the time and energy to be a part of it, But until then, I'm just their biggest fan. So shout out to the EDFC. Did I say that right?

Lily Newton: Yeah. EDFC. Yeah. Yeah. The film challenge is phenomenal. Nick Novicki, one of our original guests on the show. Rachel Handler is a regular blog contributor.

Steven Verdile: I'm a mess. I said we're about to handle. We're just Rachel Handler. My bad.

Lily Newton: Oh, yeah. I I I just I just corrected in my brain and heard, but, yeah, I it's such a great community of incredible people. Thanks for that shout out. I the the and it's making waves, like, in changing the way we see disability representation in Hollywood. It really is. So I love that shout out, and thank you so much for being on our show. We'll have links to the squeaky wheel and, like, so you can find the publication and the social media sites in the episode description of this episode. Listeners, thank you for tuning in.

Lily Newton: We're so grateful for you. Erin, thanks for being my cohost. I love you.

Erin Hawley: Yeah. I love you.

Lily Newton: And we will see you next time on another episode of everything you know about disability is wrong.

Erin Hawley: If you liked what you heard, go ahead and subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.

Lily Newton: Thank you to our listeners.

Erin Hawley: And I'll see you next time for another episode of everything you know about disability is wrong. Everything you know about disability is wrong.